Ball joint comparison: Meyle, Lemförder, Moog, SKF and Heyd

[Niels911SC]

A couple of years ago the ball joints in our bus were replaced with febi joints. This resulted in stiff steering that never really went away.

I couldn't find a good consensus online about what would be a better replacement (none, probably) so I bought a couple to compare.

(I have already pressed in the Lemförder):

Moog and SKF are impossible to move by hand and very hard to move even with a wrench. All the others are hard to move by hand, with the lightest movement on the Meyle and the Lemförder (but still not light).

I have a 30T press and the correct VW tools, so I got started.

Pressed out three of the old febis so far, and guess what: when removed from the arms they suddenly move smooth as butter??

Pressed the Lemförder into the first arm which needed a lot of force (10T) and now that one feels harder to move and turn then before.

Continued with the Meyle, pressed it in (went in smooth with less force, maybe 4T), still seems the same (not harder to move), but still heavy as it was to begin with.

What shall we do next? I think I'll press in some more and see what happens.

Is it safe to remove a ball joint again, or is it useless after putting pressure on the backside?

To be continued...

[Niels911SC]

Heyd also pressed in:

Feels a tad heavier but mostly similar to the pressed in Meyle.

[Zed999]

You could get some comparable numbers if you lock nuts on them and find out how much torque is required to start them turning like they would steering. That must be measurable, I could drive mine in a tight circle no hands.

Many thanks for doing this and posting your findings.

[deezal]

I had luck with the delphi tc134 after the febis and lemforders gave me grief.

[heimlich]

Once you press in a ball joint that is it. You do not want to remove it and press it in again. I'm sure people have done it. Maybe what you could do is test this. Take it out and tell how much pressure it took to press the ball joint in the second time and compare it to the original numbers.
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[Bulli Klinik]

I wouldn't press them in and out more than you have to or you may need to get oversized ball joints. A bit of sacrificial material comes off every time the joint is pushed in and out of the trailing arm.

I was taught to burnish the inside of the seating surface of the trailing arm with a wire wheel before installing the new joints.
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[borninabus]

the problems with various ball joints is well documented and it is twofold:

1: the knurled surface of the joint is too big and causes internal collapse upon install.
2: the joint is constructed in a way that it cannot sufficiently support the loads placed upon it.

simple measurements will address issue one.
this is why VW peened them in place after install
issue 2 is also easily dealt with. only use ball joints that have a one piece machined "cap", not ones that have a stamped steel 2 piece cap.

check out the vanagon forum and van cafe's website for the low down.
let's see the tops of those ball joints, OP
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[orwell84]

Sometimes I wonder if all these companies with different colored boxes with different letters on them all get them from the same few factories in WhongGhong province. Sometimes they put out good batches and sometimes they are shitty and those are the differences in quality we are attributing to brand. I say this because I see threads that say these ball joints, door seals whatever are the cat’s ass. Sooner or later someone else comes along and says they tried those ball joints, cv joint boot etc and they sucked. I don’t know enough about manufacturing to even guess.

[SGKent]

[raygreenwood]

[Niels911SC]

I would concur that most of them are in fact different, from the stamped caps to the ribs to the material used and the cut-out at the top, almost all of them have subtle differences.
They are however almost all heavy to turn, some more so than others, so they probably use mostly the same processes.

I accidentally ordered a Meyle HD as well (which is the oversized version of the Meyle), not knowning that it was oversized. Curiously enough that is the only ball joint that seems to turn normally and has a reasonable amount of resistance! It doesn't 'fall' from one side to the other when shaking, but it can easily be moved (and turned!) by hand. I can't press that one in however since I have regular sized suspension arms. Makes me consider bringing them to a machine shop and have them reamed to the correct spec for oversized joints... but then I'm at the mercy of one brand only in the future

Does anyone have the spec for what the size the holes in oversized torsion arms should be? Just have it reamed/ honed to 0.3mm less than what it is now?

Based on a reaction above I also ordered the Delphi TC134. Waiting for the delivery.

Right now I have 3 Heyd pressed in and 1 Meyle. Of the four, 2 Heyds and 1 Meyle twist/move with about the same friction as before they were pressed in, but 1 Heyd has become noticeably harder to turn.
My hypothesis is that the outside shells are probably thinner then the original OEM ones, and when pressed in they sometimes deform and put more pressure on the ball. I'm definitely going to press that one out again and replace with another.

[Niels911SC]

Well so far it seems an absolute crapshoot.
I had 3 Heyd and 1 Meyle pressed in. 2 Heyds with reasonable turning resistance, Meyle a bit heavier and the 3rd Heyd was very heavy.

Got the delivery of the Delphis, 2 actually have great turning resistance (tight but not heavy), but 2 are extremely heavy to turn.

So now I pressed out one Heyd and the Meyle, and pressed in the two light Delphis. So 2 Heyd in the lower arms, 2 Delphi in the upper arms. Out of like a total of 16 ball joints from all sorts of different brands this seems the best I can do

And all I can conclude is that all brands seem to have quality differences between samples, even the top ones (Heyd, Meyle, Lemförder), so you basically have to order like 8 or 10, select the 4 best ones and send the rest back...

[SGKent]

[Nitramrebrab72]

Lemforder or TRW and sometimes Moog (when they working under liscence of lemforder) , stay away from all the others that have a shiny press galvanised cap, if it's not rough cast finish or machined cap they won't last 5 minutes.

The bottom one is a lemforder design (similar design to TRW) made under liscence by Moog beware Moog also made the cheap and nasty one as well.

[Niels911SC]

[SGKent]

[Randy in Maine]

What Steve said above is right on the money.

If I might offer a suggestion for when all of a sudden things are not as they were......take your flashlight and just look around for something that looks a little different. A hose or a wire off or not well connected or a split in the S boot or something like that. Before you suspect the FI system, have a good look at the ignition system (points plugs, wires, condenser, cap) as that is more likely the cause.

Always carry some basic tools including a volt ohm meter, and timing light, and a dwell/tach. And your Bentley manual. Even if you decide not to fix it, a real mechanic will need those things to do it well.

Just saying....

[airschooled]

I have a theory, but I want to ask first…

Has ANYONE here actually measured their old ball joints for play before replacing? What was the play? (Measure in thousandths, with the spindle removed.)

Robbie
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