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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| ivkings4 wrote: |
Your crazy, you can't build a car with such a big engine for strip and street use. It will never last. you can't have your cake and eat it too... 
Actually you can!! and when people pull you over and ask what kind of V8 is in it you will get a laugh out of them.. |
You've said it before and I fully agree - this is all part of the fun, learning what works and what doesn't. You, myself and many others here keep these old cars going (and going fast!) because we either know how to fix stuff that breaks ourselves, or we have trusted people we can call to fix it for us.
Makes life fun! |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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awesome! show us some photos of the case!
_________________
drive your split. |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 5:45 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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Here are some photos of the outside of the case, pretty much as I pulled it from the box. It is HEAVY for a VW case. I did a one arm football carry to the shop floor where I took these photos and let me tell you that was uncomfortable!
In a couple of the photos you can see the type 4 center main with bearing insert installed.
I don't have any pics with the cases split yet but here goes:
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King_vw61
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2018
Posts: 1383
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:48 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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Very nice. You even get a dip stick tube. I miss that on my autocraft case. Have to pull a 1/8” pipe plug to check the oil.
_________________
1961 Ragtop, Autocraft 2783cc for street/strip 10k miles and counting...230.84 HP to the wheels thru Muffler 13.4 to 1 on E85
https://www.instagram.com/king_vw61/?hl=en |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:00 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| So are you really gonna run thinwall (.035) chromo pushrods with a FK46 like in Herberts combo that your wanting to copy? He was a brave soul. With a FK45 CB recommended to me the .058 thick wall chromos. |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:20 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| ivkings4 wrote: |
| Very nice. You even get a dip stick tube. I miss that on my autocraft case. Have to pull a 1/8” pipe plug to check the oil. |
It also has the so-called "hoover mod" option whereby the case is drilled almost, but not quite, to where the oiling holes in the case and cam hole meet. It is there in case the customer wants to do the hoover mod but if they don't they don't have to. |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:26 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| So are you really gonna run thinwall (.035) chromo pushrods with a FK46 like in Herberts combo that your wanting to copy? He was a brave soul. With a FK45 CB recommended to me the .058 thick wall chromos. |
Oh no, I'll be running the .058" Manton pushrods from CB. My cam will be the FK46, with the CB Super 84mm crank, 5.5 h-beam rods with 5/16 ARP 2000 bolts and 12.5 chromoly flywheel, but those are going in the White Rhino case with the 2332, not this case 
For the 2332 I still need the engine case, cam and lifters but I've got nearly everything else. My Mahle pistons need some material removed but I'm not sure yet where to remove them. I may start a thread with pics for those so I can hurry up and get the balancing done and start mocking up once I get the other case. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:06 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| So are you really gonna run thinwall (.035) chromo pushrods with a FK46 like in Herberts combo that your wanting to copy? He was a brave soul. With a FK45 CB recommended to me the .058 thick wall chromos. |
Oh no, I'll be running the .058" Manton pushrods from CB. My cam will be the FK46, with the CB Super 84mm crank, 5.5 h-beam rods with 5/16 ARP 2000 bolts and 12.5 chromoly flywheel, but those are going in the White Rhino case with the 2332, not this case
For the 2332 I still need the engine case, cam and lifters but I've got nearly everything else. My Mahle pistons need some material removed but I'm not sure yet where to remove them. I may start a thread with pics for those so I can hurry up and get the balancing done and start mocking up once I get the other case. |
Very cool man, the .058 Mantons are a great choice. |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:07 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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beautiful
so all this talk of marine cranks and billet scat cranks (and tf1 $$$$) Im surprised you didn't opt for a larger bore? That case is a wonderful platform for a 101.4 build, and if you're talking about an 86 crank then you could be up at 2778cc.
just curious.
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drive your split. |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:18 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| sled wrote: |
beautiful
so all this talk of marine cranks and billet scat cranks (and tf1 $$$$) Im surprised you didn't opt for a larger bore? That case is a wonderful platform for a 101.4 build, and if you're talking about an 86 crank then you could be up at 2778cc.
just curious. |
Yeah I considered the 101s, but I guess I'm just not familiar enough with those to where I feel as confident working with them. Todd said by far his most popular bore was the 94, and that is the biggest bore I've worked with to date. The previous was the 90.5s in my 1776 back in the late eighties. I fell into a hole where I didn't mess with VWs again until the early 2000s and since then its been the teeny tiny 77mm stuff in 36 and 40hp engines until the big engine "bug" bit me about 18 months ago.
I'm glad I at least got the 411 center main option with it, but you're right though this case could handle the 101s and some people have done so. |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
| TF-1 case arrived earlier today. It is one nice chunk of aluminum! Mine has T-4 center main, 94 bore and is otherwise standard issue. |
Should have gone with the rear thrust conversion while it was with Shawn. |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| Dauz wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| TF-1 case arrived earlier today. It is one nice chunk of aluminum! Mine has T-4 center main, 94 bore and is otherwise standard issue. |
Should have gone with the rear thrust conversion while it was with Shawn. |
Thanks. I'm using an 8-dowel crank and Shawn said there was no need for the thrust conversion. I think that is for flanged cranks and/or when you use all 3 main journals type 4 sized. |
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Nando_b63
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2020
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:19 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| Update , please.... |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:47 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| hi very cool case. but if one would build a that case with 101 cyls . with a 90 mm crank . would it run real hot . on a street motor ? .what would you use to cool a motor that big and have it live on the street .and would that. be worth the money one would spend to build a motor like that ?would a motor like that cost over $25,000.00. to build with the best parts money can buy or less. turn key ? spencerfvee |
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vwinnovator
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1555
Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:07 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
| hi very cool case. but if one would build a that case with 101 cyls . with a 90 mm crank . would it run real hot . on a street motor ? .what would you use to cool a motor that big and have it live on the street .and would that. be worth the money one would spend to build a motor like that ?would a motor like that cost over $25,000.00. to build with the best parts money can buy or less. turn key ? spencerfvee |
interesting...
what's your correlation to the stoke/size of a motor to the heat it would generate?
I don't think a 90mm crank would make moe heat than a 69mm
but depending on cylinders / fins, i could see 101's hotter than 85's... |
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King_vw61
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2018
Posts: 1383
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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More power is more heat no matter how you look at it. I have 200 miles with E85 in my engine. 20 degree cooler oil temps and 40 cooler degree cht temps. 330 on freeway to 280 and that’s with autocraft 910 heads. Better poling heads and a real shroud you could make it live for sure.
Once dialed in I will be going to a 88 x 105.
_________________
1961 Ragtop, Autocraft 2783cc for street/strip 10k miles and counting...230.84 HP to the wheels thru Muffler 13.4 to 1 on E85
https://www.instagram.com/king_vw61/?hl=en |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| ivkings4 wrote: |
More power is more heat no matter how you look at it. I have 200 miles with E85 in my engine. 20 degree cooler oil temps and 40 cooler degree cht temps. 330 on freeway to 280 and that’s with autocraft 910 heads. Better poling heads and a real shroud you could make it live for sure.
Once dialed in I will be going to a 88 x 105. |
..........................................................so we must run E85 gas .to keep the heat down . if we build a 90x101 motor .are you using carbs ? if so what did you do to the carbs so you can run E85 gas ? thanks spencerfvee |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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[quote="vwinnovator"]
| spencerfvee wrote: |
| hi very cool case. but if one would build a that case with 101 cyls . with a 90 mm crank . would it run real hot . on a street motor ? .what would you use to cool a motor that big and have it live on the street .and would that. be worth the money one would spend to build a motor like that ?would a motor like that cost over $25,000.00. to build with the best parts money can buy or less. turn key ? spencerfvee |
interesting...
what's your correlation to the stoke/size of a motor to the heat it would generate?
I don't think a 90mm crank would make moe heat than a 69mm
but depending on cylinders / fins, i could see 101's hotter than 85's...[/quote .........................................................................................................................the biggest motor i was a part of building . was a 90mm x94mm it was a off the road buggy motor . from what i was told by the owner of the buggy it did run hotter . he ran cam 2 racing gas. and that helped to keep the heat down . he only used it on week ends .when my best racing friend was a live we built a 88mmx94mm for for are dragster we used a scat case
and scat rods it ran good at the track .but did get very hot after each run at the drag strip spencerfvee |
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King_vw61
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2018
Posts: 1383
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
| ivkings4 wrote: |
More power is more heat no matter how you look at it. I have 200 miles with E85 in my engine. 20 degree cooler oil temps and 40 cooler degree cht temps. 330 on freeway to 280 and that’s with autocraft 910 heads. Better poling heads and a real shroud you could make it live for sure.
Once dialed in I will be going to a 88 x 105. |
..........................................................so we must run E85 gas .to keep the heat down . if we build a 90x101 motor .are you using carbs ? if so what did you do to the carbs so you can run E85 gas ? thanks spencerfvee |
You don't, I have 4000 miles on a 86 x 101.4 10.7 to 1 51.5 IDa's street engine with 910 Autocraft heads. Ran 91 octane with torco boost for the first 4k.
Now I have 200 miles on the E85 tune. Nothing done inside the carbs besides what Geers did to them when going to 52's. 300 needles, larger bowels.
I did go to 80 pump jets.
The car has to be set up for it. no rubber lines, I have -8 stainless from the pump back to regulator and -6 teflon every where else. pump and reg are E85 friendly.
35% larger main and Idle. I think it will make it thru the 1/8 without running out of fuel in the carbs. 1/4 is another question. I raced my wife messing around to 5500 in 4th, thats about 130 with a .82 4th and a 413 r/p with a 26" tall tire. It ran out of fuel so I let off.
I could up the fuel pressure from 2.8 to 3.5 and it would help. still in the testing stages.... I can always run race gas at the track and E85 on the street.
_________________
1961 Ragtop, Autocraft 2783cc for street/strip 10k miles and counting...230.84 HP to the wheels thru Muffler 13.4 to 1 on E85
https://www.instagram.com/king_vw61/?hl=en |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: my 2332 which engine case - White Rhino or TF-1? |
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Update: For now I went with the CB White Rhino, and I have a series of videos on it on youtube for anyone interested.
I just "glued" the case halves together after giving the cam degreeing a thorough effort.
The TF-1 is sitting off to the side and this is deliberate. I wanted to get my feet wet building this big engine with the slightly less expensive CB case just in case anything goes wrong.
I have plans to follow this 2332cc up with a 2275cc turbo or 2387 N/A built around the TF-1 case.
Fyi check out my birthday cake:
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