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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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if they put the rods on backwards that may do it as they are offset but not offset   |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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Could you have left a key out on one of the crank gears? Did you remember the spacer?
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| if they put the rods on backwards that may do it as they are offset but not offset |
Yeah, it sounds to me kinda' like rods flopping around, or LOOSE rod bearings, or huge rod side clearance, but on a new engine?
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Who.Me? 
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2207
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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This was the last picture that I took before buttoning up the case (literally - the sealant is on the case halves here). The rods all ran smoothly, no slop. Maybe I missed something but the rods all looked to be the right way round to me too...
Everything seemed to turn smoothly until I installed the shims and torqued the flywheel for the last time.
There was noise before that as the crank moved back and forth within its endfloat. The only resistance to turning over was a light 'scrubbing' feel that I was expecting from fresh rings in new barrels.
Endfloat without shims was 0.83mm. I fitted 3 x 0.24mm shims which I calculated should bring the endfloat down to 0.11mm.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3438
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| Sticky valve, pushrod or lifter? |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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I'm sure it has to be a trick of the camera lens/angle, but that #1 rod looks tweaked.
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| Play between the cam gears? |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3438
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| It sounds like a valve snapping shut. Pull the rockers and check |
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andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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dizzy drive installed now yh?with dizzy in place?
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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Did you put in #2 bearing...
Dale
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"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| Oh, boy! We're just grasping at straws, now... I hope you find it, but I don't know if it's gonna be solved over the internet anymore... |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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Tough to confirm in the picture, but is that a smallish gap I see between the cam thrust bearing and flange?
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liquidrush
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018
Posts: 588
Location: MO
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| When I assembled my stock 1600 I had a strange click followed by a bind that turned out to be a damaged spot on the crank gear that was made by the 3 jaw puller I used. Even though I cleaned the gear, drive, spacer and clip in the ultrasonic cleaner, washed and blew the parts dry and then assembled them on the crank I still missed it. Once I saw it I thought how the Eff did I miss that?? Took a little investigation to find it but I found it by process of elimination. I had to pull the crank back out and swap the gear. I was incredibly tempted to take the Dremel to the gear in place but since I had another assembled crank I pulled one off it and replaced it. I can see it making noise if I had assembled it. You're definitely going to have to take that back apart so let us know what you find. |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| What happens if you take the flywheel off again? |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| rushing liquid has something I agree with and have seen before. effed up crank gear tooth from the puller used. Ive also seen new cam gears that were wonkey too... wrist pin? circlip? someting in a chamber? piston contacting head? what was the finished assembled end float? |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3438
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| liquidrush wrote: |
| When I assembled my stock 1600 I had a strange click followed by a bind that turned out to be a damaged spot on the crank gear that was made by the 3 jaw puller I used. Even though I cleaned the gear, drive, spacer and clip in the ultrasonic cleaner, washed and blew the parts dry and then assembled them on the crank I still missed it. Once I saw it I thought how the Eff did I miss that?? Took a little investigation to find it but I found it by process of elimination. I had to pull the crank back out and swap the gear. I was incredibly tempted to take the Dremel to the gear in place but since I had another assembled crank I pulled one off it and replaced it. I can see it making noise if I had assembled it. You're definitely going to have to take that back apart so let us know what you find. |
If you dropped the crank in the case with the dist drive already there, it may have gotten dinged that way. I put the drive in after the crank, with the case open. The brass gear is easily boogered up |
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liquidrush
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018
Posts: 588
Location: MO
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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| No, the crank gear that drives the cam gear, not the dist drive gear. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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Just open it up, you will probably have to anyway...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Who.Me?
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 2207
Location: UK (South)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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I backed off all the valve adjusters all the way, but the noise was still there.
Then I pulled the rocker arms and slid the pushrods back and the noise has stopped.
So what diagnostic can I do next?
I have a USB inspection camera and put that through the spark plug holes. I can't see any evidence of the valves having hit the piston crowns.
The noise sounded like it was coming from inside the case and I was starting to wonder if it was cam backlash that was becoming more evident because of drag caused by the lifters under pressure from the push rods.
I checked the lash during assembly and it was within spec. Plus I can't understand why that would cause the noise twice each revolution.
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Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5994
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Double knock turning newly rebuilt engine over by hand |
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Your sound reminds me of what my engine was doing before teardown:
Link
After full teardown best I can figure was that there was some kind of tight spot between crankshaft and camshaft. Not sure if crankshaft was slightly bent or the engine was assembled with incorrect cam backlash (I didn't build it) or some other issue, but there was a noticeable tight spot in turning the engine over by hand plus this sound.
The video was taken with heads, rockers, and push rods on. As in your case, when I pulled the rockers and push rods the noise stopped (though the tight spot remained).
When I pulled the engine apart the camshaft gear had CRAZY backlash with the crank timing gear - it wasn't even all the way around (due to tight spot or bent-ness) but at the worst part of the cam gear I measured it at .017"!!!
The engine ran fine but sounded like a diesel - kind of a deep rattly sound from inside the case due presumably to the cam gear slapping around in there.
I think you're in for a teardown to see what's going on - maybe you have a main bearing not seated properly or something is bent.
How many places around the circumference of the cam gear did you check backlash?
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