steering box trouble

[daves_ale]

[ToolBox]

[vwjordy]

Toolbox put that in the box inplace of gear oil?

[SamboSamba22]

[SGKent]

no lathe is needed and you are selfish if take a position that encourages others to take your risk. Or you can look for a new factory gear and spend the $600 to $1200 for one. A pan with mineral spirits to soak everything, and some wrenches plus new seals is what is needed. Personally I would first fill it with gear oil and adjust it. If the gear is allowed to have more than factory specified play then it will leak more too once the seals harden. As others have said, some people use grease but it is not the preferred lube on a Gemmer gearbox. You can follow the factory instructions I posted a link to earlier in this thread to adjust it. You can also replace it with a TRW gear box that a photo was posted of too. Or you can take it apart and do the job yourself. It is a 50 year old car. Not like there are dealers around to do it for you. There is a shop in Dayton who does work, maybe they can recommend something. I don't know them but maybe someone here will. https://www.creativegerman.com/ Maybe 4 - 5 hours work at $120 an hour plus the drive is a guess what it would cost to rebuild plus the seals, or 2 hours and a new TRW gear box (they are inferior to the originals.) Gemmer has been making gearboxes since the 1920's. The design was licensed to VW to use. The Gemmer factory in France built some of the 1973 boxes. They also built boxes for Ferrari so they are no slouch.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[daves_ale]

Off the top I was referring to the Aussie site where they detailed the complete replacement of the bronze bushings from the inside of the box. This is where the majority of the slop occurs as long as there hasn't been damage due to water incursion. Thus, a lathe and press are required.
Secondly, I take exception to being called selfish, piss off.
Third, I have done the seals myself and do the vast majority of my own work and will continue to do as long as it is feasible. Where and when I can't I will source it out and pay for someone else's experience and be glad to do so.
One of the points of these tech forums is to keep using, repairing, and enjoying these vehicles and I'm damn glad to know that these so called unrepairable boxes happen to be repairable. Before going off on a diatribe on what I post why don't you actually look at what I was referring to, in this case the Aussie site, that describes the complete disassembly of the box and proper repair techniques instead of going on about seal replacement or complete box replacement?
You had posted some fine information, thank you. I was commenting on other information that someone else had posted. Shared knowledge from multiple people is what makes these forums a fantastic resource.
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'66 Euro Beetle 1200A
'71 Single Cab
'78 Westy
'02 Jaguar XK8 convertible

[SGKent]

[raygreenwood]

[airschooled]

[raygreenwood]

[KentABQ]

SGKent:
Thank you so much for the detailed rebuild info.
I've book marked this thread and will be following it when I finally get to doing mine.
Having clear pictures are much easier for me to follow than the tech manual descriptions.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"

"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea

Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM

[SGKent]

Hey Ray - so you fill it full with little headspace, and the movement in a confined space is what keeps it greased with no air pockets? What about the plastic plug that is simply a pop on in the late bay boxes. You'd have to thread a plug in there it or it would seem of the pressure would pop the plastic plug out. It also leaks a little air to allow for expansion. Lots of them also crack. How does this figure in since you say it has to be filled full with very little head space... .

Robbie - I think that fluid you are using is what used to go in my late CJ7 trans. If so it is a really extreme high pressure fluid that carries away a lot of heat. If so it is a lot thinner than gear oil and smells fishy as I recall. Borg Warner originally used AFT Dextron II in their manual 5 speeds but had so many issues they went to that special fishy smelling oil. Seems to me it was a GM product at the time. Some folks now use 50 wt gear extreme pressure gear oil in the T5 although some still use ATF because the early manuals called for it. The transfer case used regular 80/90 GL4 gear oil.

Also - I used to run Mercury Outboards on a couple boats I had. 2 stroke. Rebuilt both a 65 HP and a 105 HP. They used needle bearings, and the larger one made more HP than our bus engines do and ran at higher RPMS. They get their lubrication solely from the oil added to the fuel that washes thru the core of the engine.

The main point on these steering boxes is keep them full of lubricant, and keep them adjusted properly. The one on my 1971 bay saw almost 600,000 miles and was still tight and smooth when I sold it. I made checking it a regular maintenance item. Whenever I checked the trans I checked the steering.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[raygreenwood]

[vwjordy]

thanks for all the helpful info!! SGKent from the looks of the pic you posted mine might be the french one it has a plastic ring between the pitman arm and the gearbox. does it take same seals as the german version and how do you know what seals to get? are there numbers on the seals? do you replace ball bearings or is the small bag of bearings in your pic just the old ones cleaned up?

[WaterBulli]

Great work done here, and this inspired me to buy a couple of used boxes to build one or two good of the parts.

The bearings appear to be the biggest trouble, all boxes I opened are more ore less worn out or even heavily damaged here. These bearings are specific for this box, so you cannot find them anywhere although there are SKF numbers on them (355904 and 355927).

However, I found a dealer who had bought the production remainders and now has these parts in stock (as well as original VW wheel bearings and gearbox bearings).

http://www.peters-bearing.de/index.php


Btw: removing the lower bearing is quite easy even if you do not have the puller.

[SGKent]

[cellobus1]

Hi, reviving this for a quick question about the seals. Are they both the same size? They weren't on the type one boxes. Doesn't look like the worm shaft and the roller shaft are the same size, and I can't really tell from the photos.

Andy
_________________
1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive

[aeromech]

All I can tell you is that the 1968-1973 (or so) boxes used two seals that are slightly different. I’ve been able to find them on eBay once you know the size
_________________
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[Vee Dub Nut]

[Tvättbjörn]