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1st gear pop out on lift off
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

gears wrote:
Photos might help:

Here's an unworn flank (yeah OEM sometimes isn't that pretty)
Note the slight wear on tip and corner ..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


.. while on this gear, tip & corner have about the same wear, yet the flank is toast. So, you can't judge condition of the engagement teeth based on tips alone. (sorry for fuzzy)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Damn! I wish I could take pics like that.
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balljoint
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

Got ya there gears.


mcmscott wrote:
"the problem is the engagement teeth with the contact of the operating sleeve."


In a case like this is it recommended to change both 1st gear and the operating sleeve?
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

balljoint wrote:
Got ya there gears.


mcmscott wrote:
"the problem is the engagement teeth with the contact of the operating sleeve."


In a case like this is it recommended to change both 1st gear and the operating sleeve?



Commen practice on rebuilds is to remove the worn teeth, sounds odd. VW gears run in "sets" like 2 sets of 5 teeth, 2 of 3, 3 of 3, 3 of 5. Depending on the year of the gear. Removing the worn sets leaves new sets. This and inspection of the slider will tell if the slider needs replacement. Also early boxes didn't move the slider as far as later boxes. When I build an early box I use a later shift rail and iether machine the slider or use a later one.
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balljoint
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

Yes I've heard about that trick of removing the the worn teeth.

My box is an AO with the 2 drain plugs. Is this considered a late one?

Thanks for the info.
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

2 drain plugs is pre 1970, single is 1970 and later.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

So a fork adjustment fixed the problem and the best part is I didnt even have to go inside the box! Cool
Thanks guys!
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66brm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

balljoint wrote:
So a fork adjustment fixed the problem and the best part is I didnt even have to go inside the box! Cool
Thanks guys!

So how did you adjust it then?
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vwpilotbob
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

You guys seem like the ones to ask, sorry I'm late to the party...

1973 VW Baja, fixing up to sell. In both first and reverse, it pops out of gear if I don't gently hold the shifter in gear. It comes out of both those gears under power, if the shifter isn't held.

Since it comes out of those gears, with throws in opposite directions, I don't thing the shifter or adjustment could be the problem. I feel rather confident the trans has to come out and get torn down. I've done GM auto trans rebuilds, 4 speed Borg Warners and Muncies, but never a VW. I have old cases to use for the assembly adjustments, but what am I looking for on teardown that would cause these problems??

Thanks!!
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vwpilotbob
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

Put another way, is there something in common to both reverse and first gears in the trans that might cause them BOTH to pop out of gear??

Thanks!
Vwpilotbob
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

I can't completely answer your question.
I had a trans built a few years ago. When I installed the trans. Everything was fine at first. Within a week. It began to pop out of first gear when letting the clutch engage. The car wouldn't move 2 feet before popping out of gear.

I took the entire car and the trans builder went through it again.
Turns out that there is a snap ring(clip) on the first gear shaft that slipped out of place allowing the gear to pop out, under load.
If MCM_Scott reads this. Sorry I don't have the nomenclature correct. I'm ignorant. Not stupid.

I cannot help with the reverse gear issue. But mine didn't have an issue with reverse, While having the problem with first gear.

VW trans are different than anything that you have built/rebuilt in the past. I too can rework a Munci four speed without issues. But a VW trans? I leave it to the pro's that have experience and the correct tools/jigs and fixtures to get the trans correct.
Even after they make a build error.
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vwpilotbob
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear pop out on lift off Reply with quote

Well, I've built all my own engines, transmissions etc. all my life. 50+ years of wrenching, so I'm not exactly the average poster I guess. I think I could do a VW trans. I have the Bentley book, a trans case to use as a jig, and I believe the only tool I'll need that I can't make might be the pinion wrench. What the heck, it's broken now, right? Not much to lose by reviewing the manual, watching some YouTube vids, and digging in. Once upon a time, 55 years ago, I didn't know how to build an engine from scratch; then I learned and now can do it in my sleep, and build airplanes too! ;~)

Thanks!
Vwpilotbob
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