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Steering column failure
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oprn
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Steering column failure Reply with quote

The collapsible section in the steering column between the coupler and the firewall failed on my Buggy on the weekend. It is just how I bought it but as I look at the two broken ends now it looks to have some misalignment.

Is this common?
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Busted Knuckle Garage
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Got any pics? I am just about to install my steering shaft with the same shaft. I would be interested in finding something different to use.

Frank
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Yes I have seen them break when they are misaligned.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

I will get a picture tomorrow in the day.

I would rather keep this style of shaft for the benefit of not having the steering shaft driven through my chest in a collision. I will have to see what it will take to line it up properly.

I'm glad it happened on the ice racing track instead of out in traffic!
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Rotate the steering box so that they align. Reset your toe. If you trust your welding, I have seen them repaired before, and endure some pretty tough offroad beatings.

brad


Last edited by slalombuggy on Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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oprn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
Rotate the steering box so that they align. Reset your toe. If you trust your welding I have seen them repaired

brad

Brad, that is exactly what I was thinking needed to be done. Thanks!

Not sure what you mean with the bearings though.
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Autocorrect Evil or Very Mad ......endure some beatings.
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andygere
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

I had one start to fail on my previous buggy, and fortunately caught it before it failed while driving. Metal fatigue, stress and corrosion take their toll on the birdcage section. Failure of this while driving could be catastrophic, and I think you'd be better off finding a replacement column in good condition than attempting to weld a broken one. I think the safety benefits of the collapsible column are outweighed by the risk of serious accident if it shears off while driving. I much prefer the solid style columns.
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

I have concerns with the collapsing steering shafts in my buggies. The glass body moves and shakes more than a steel Bug body. The factory cloth and rubber coupler has proven to take that, but you are not the first person to report the expanded metal section failing. Perhaps they are all cases of misalignment, certainly you want to correct any you might have. I wonder though if it isn't the regular millimeter level shaking, common on buggies without a cage, that slowly fatigues the metal.

I once made the bracket that attaches the column to the body at the front out of 0.063 aluminum. It broke from fatigue after about 10 years of service. Thankfully that didnt rob me of control, just made it a loose sloppy affair.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Good points EVfun! Yes the body does flex.


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manxvair
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

We were on a buggy outing once with a group, one of the buggy's that had been recently built had that piece FAIL on the the trail, he lost all steering and ended up in some bushes, fortunately he wasn't going very fast. He his wife and 2 daughters were all OK, but it could have been worse, luckily it didn't happen at highway speeds!
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oprn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Getting warm enough to drive the Buggy now, time to fix this problem. It looks like this is at least the third time for this failure going by the previous welds and bits jammed in to take up the gaps. Past time for a better fix!

You can see the big nut jammed in and welded. Cut that whole mess off!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There was no bearing at the bottom of the tube to center the shaft so first order of business... make a bushing out of Delrin.
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Assembled.

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I have decided to go with another U joint to couple the shaft back on. That should take care of misalignments and body flex. Now to find something suitable...
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

It's important to ensure the column is straight all the way from the steering box to the steering wheel. If you have not rotated and re-set the box on the beam to align it with the column in the body, that could be the source of your trouble. That adjustment of the box on the beam will cause a change in alignment. The car should get re-aligned after re-setting the box and column. This is a step in building a buggy that most never do.

Another way to get a collapsible column for crash safety is to take one from another car at a wrecking yard or lots of hotrod supply houses sell "double D shafts" to fabricate your own shaft.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Once I got this thing apart it is little wonder it has been failing! Not only is it out of line vertically but horizontally too! Pretty major revamp of the fiberglass to correct this one. Another flex joint is the least painful fix here! There is a dimple on the firewall that indicates where the column goes through and this one hits it dead center. It's too high and off to the right. To put it through in line would leave it in an uneven spot that would be hard to seal up.

I am going to assume this is one of the downsides of the Manx copies. I'm sure Bruce would not have left a flaw like this!
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

With everything in lock down in the country sourcing parts that are not "what's the VIN number Sir? " friendly is pretty tough. Came up with an industrial flex coupler that fit very nicely and allows the retention of most of the collapsible bit too. All in place, bolted down and the steering feels much smoother.
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Those are known to suddenly fail.

When you get a chance to do some shopping and fabricating, the best solution is to completely eliminate that section and replace it with a short shaft and a pair of U-joints

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Wolfgangdieter
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

Super Beetles and Porsche 914's use the double flex joints.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/Parts/Front_axle/steering_suspen_big.jpg
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:
Those are known to suddenly fail.

When you get a chance to do some shopping and fabricating, the best solution is to completely eliminate that section and replace it with a short shaft and a pair of U-joints

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I see yours is out of line on the horizontal too. Mine was breaking at the other end. What did you use for U joints?

Actually you have 3 flex joints now because you retained the original one too.
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

That's not mine, just a photo I grabbed off the Samba as an example.

Pretty sure they aren't using the rag joint/flex disc though

As far as I know there are no direct bolt in sections. Some people use Super Beetle parts or 914 parts or aftermarket parts but all those those the splines are different. You'll need to do some combination and fabrication

There are a number of threads on the subject in both the fiberglass buggy forum and the HBB Baja forum

Borgeson is a good search word
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Steering column failure Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
There was no bearing at the bottom of the tube to center the shaft so first order of business... make a bushing out of Delrin.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Assembled.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I have decided to go with another U joint to couple the shaft back on. That should take care of misalignments and body flex. Now to find something suitable...

Nice work. Delrin is a good bushing material, though if overheated to the point of degrading in an injection molding machine it will clear a 10,000 square foot shop. Laughing

You know you could have just used another top bearing with a short piece of tube in place of the spring and a 2 piece shaft collar to hold that in place and function to keep the steering shaft from being pushed up out of the tube in an accident.

That's what I did, except I didn't nothing to insure the entire column doesn't get pushed up in an accident. A nice benefit of this method is you have a self contained steering column with the gap between the turn signal switch and steering wheel preset before the column is installed.
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