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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:41 pm Post subject: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Heres the goal:
You can put a grommet just about anywhere you want up there below the fiberglas.
Westfalia has drilled 12 holes in the top to bolt down the fiberglas roof.
You will be drilling "hole #13" and perhaps "hole #14".
A hidden wire from the lower cabinet area (or aug battery or solar controller) inside the driver pillar.
The driver door air vent cover can be removed to fish the wire into the lower cabinet.
I found a decent route that gets above the headliner by drilling a hole onto the pillar behind the Westy Spice shelf.
Once you're above the headliner area, it's just a hole thru the roof and you're into the "dry" area below the fiberglas westy cargo roof.
I used it for a solar panel wire and also for a stove-front switch to turn on kitchen lighting.
A switch that I can poke, just leaning in from outside the slider door.
The route could be used to route power to high-beam lighting bolted to the cargo roof.
Note that it's VERY VERY easy to remove the cargo roof. It's four screws and four nuts, and takes 5 minutes.
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I had a rather difficult battle with my roof, trying to be a Samba hero.
I cut into a '85 Tintop hulk, found the perfect wire route,
came home,,,, measured carefully, drilled cautiously and BAM !
....discovered that that the underlying Westfalia structure was different.
The photos were graphic and caused significant distress to Samba members.
One fearless member (MarkWard) who has cut out an entire 2WD running gear and installed a Syncro drivetrain, was queasy.
So I photoshopped out the violent elements of the battle in this opening post.
Note: These photos remain in subsequent replies from the distraught members .....so use care in scrolling.
Consider it an example that real mods won't be all puppies and rainbows.
And remember that lots of Samba members enjoy a big fight.
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"Bending the hole" is pretty important to help you get the fish wire going in the direction of "down the pillar.
It also helps to blunt the sharp edges of the drilled hole.
An allen/hex wrench works well for this.
From the pillar, the wire goes rearward a little behind the spice rack then back forward to get above the headliner card.
Once you're above the headliner you can pierce the roof wherever you want.
I sheathed my wire with a (light blue) poly hose for added protection from unknown sharp edges inside that pillar.
From behind the spice shelf you can go forward under the headliner board, then thru the roof to the Westy cargo area.
You can also route behind the spice shelf to the rear closet.
Here's the pic showing that there's already a large hole in the sheetmetal pillar.
You just have to poke a hole in the fabric.
==============================
NOTE:
This opening post has been edited to show the project better.
If you have tender eyes, be cautious in scrolling thru the following replies.
But in any case I now have a 10ga wire completely hidden to below the Fiberglas cargo roof, and it's "all good".
But with this SAMBA info, your hidden wire route will be 'easier'. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:02 am; edited 14 times in total |
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Alaskaberrys Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2016 Posts: 1001 Location: SE Alaska
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Sodo wrote: |
I found a decent route for a hidden wire from the Westy cabinet area, up the driver side pillar, and into the headliner below the westy cargo rack...
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Thanks laying this out. Curious what your wire exit setup under the luggage rack is? Looks fairly stout and weather proofed. _________________ '91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...) |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Great spot! Thanks for sharing.
But with this - and solar panels in general - please use MC4 fuses on the outside.
Also - where is the ground from your solar panel? _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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OK so I'll show you the hard way that was supposed to be easier.
I was trying to find a simple way to do it without having to remove the headliner card or the spice shelf.
But this was dicey.
Drilling behind the spice shelf is a better way.
Well,,,, first I did it like this ^^^
I cut into the rooftop then drilled with a long 3/8 bit into the driver pillar.
I did not enjoy this.
There is "a way" to do this, you can see an existing hole in a sheetmetal brace that works as as a drill guide etc.
I could explain it, but no real NEED to, 'cuz drilling behind the spice rack is much better.
I covered the roof hole with a stainless steel plate that's riveted on and sealed with Permatex UltraGrey®.
All of this is in the open space beneath the fibreglas Westy Cargo roof.
You can come up into the roof space (almost) anywhere.
The wire is inside a 5/16" plastic tube conduit that goes down the pillar, and all the way to the bottom of the Westy cabinets.
Here's the Solar panel connection.
The SAE bulhead connector will emerge partway up the side in the forward area of the cargo area recess.
Its grounded to the van body.
I used 10ga wire.
The SAE connectors are 12ga wire. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Couldn't you also just pop out the dome light and have line of sight access to the outer skin...if you part a path through lots of fluffy yellow insulation? _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Couldn't you also just pop out the dome light and have line of sight access to the outer skin...if you part a path through lots of fluffy yellow insulation? |
I think so.
How did you envision using that to get a hidden wire from the cabinets to the outside? _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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I would snake it up the route you went, and then grab it with the hooked end of a coat hanger from the dome light hole. Pull the wire through the dome hole. Drill a hole up under the cargo rack and snake the wire up to that hole and grab with aforementioned hook. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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These are two very scary photos. I couldn't imagine doing that.
_________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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VicVan Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 1845 Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Just a thought about the blue wire and the cabinetry: you might want to add quick-cnnectors in there, should you remove the kitchen cabinetry one day. Otherwise you'll have to cut the wires.
As for the pictures of the hole, ouch! _________________ '90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Syncronoid wrote: |
These are two very scary photos. I couldn't imagine doing that.
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OMG. It certainly solves a problem, but I could never cut the roof like that. I spent a week building up my courage for the intake and exhaust holes for the Espar.
This is sealed and covered by the luggage rack so no harm. But wow, that’s a hole. _________________ ☮️ |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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When I did my solar from the luggage compartment, I ran the wire in under the lower tent strip. From here it could easily be brought down into the cabinet in several ways.
_________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
I would snake it up the route you went, and then grab it with the hooked end of a coat hanger from the dome light hole. Pull the wire through the dome hole. Drill a hole up under the cargo rack and snake the wire up to that hole and grab with aforementioned hook. |
That might be the way to go for a tintop with a fabric headliner. But not many have Westfalia cargo roofs so that’s a different project.
A westy has a fibre-board headliner. You can unscrew a few headliner screws and pull it downward. Then drill the roof hole wherever you want, stick your whole arm in there and stuff it thru a rubber grommet.
Then you need to search for the missing plastic screw cap and decide which screw doesn't get one.
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VicVan wrote: |
Just a thought about the blue wire and the cabinetry: you might want to add quick-cnnectors in there, should you remove the kitchen cabinetry one day. Otherwise you'll have to cut the wires. |
Note the blue wire exits (the fabric of) the Van's driver pillar.
The cabinet rear is open to the van wall.
=================
Syncronoid that is a totally reasonable, clean, visible wire route.
I could have done that but had hidden wires as the goal.
If I can't make it more difficult, what the heck else am I gonna do?
MarkWard wrote: |
OMG. It certainly solves a problem, but I could never cut the roof like that. I spent a week building up my courage for the intake and exhaust holes for the Espar..... |
I hear you on that, I was there. For days/weeks.
But there are photons being wasted out there,,,, lots of them,,,,, cast aside like spent condoms.
I had to move forward and get this panel wired up.
This is not the only hole you will find beneath the Westfalia fibreglas cargo roof.
Granted you are killing kittens for every hole you drill in a classic automobile.
It's difficult, and it should be.
I have had my solar panel for 6 months, and spent umpteen hours (days/weeks/months) figuring out how to mount the panel without drilling the fibreglas top.
See this thread: Solar panel in the luggage rack
But I will have to drill one 20mm hole in the fibreglas to screw down the 12v SAE connector/bulkhead.
I spent a fairly significant several days avoiding this nerve-wracking part of the job.
Then mapped out a course of action, and felt like I won the lottery when I was allowed to hack into a hulk.
I cut a rectangle out of a hulk destined for the crusher.
Then created a template to take home.
Here's the template sitting on my rooftop.
The plan was flawless.
Homework was done.
I very carefully transferred the location of the most kitten-safe location found on the '85 tintop to my '90 Westy.....
...but in spite of my efforts kittens around the world started dropping off like octogenarians at a Trump rally.
Once the nice, perfect round hole was there, and I saw inside that the structure was different..... well I had to make it bigger and make it work.
And make a cover.
And note that if this info was on theSamba I would not have done that.
So by publishing this "behind spice-shelf method" many kittens will be saved. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Have you tested the setup yet? I know a user on here grounded his similarly and had trouble with his solar controller when he switched from a PMW to MPPT controller.
https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/7190...ry-pv.html
Quote: |
The positive and negative wiring of the panels needs to be connected directly to the solar charge controller, and nothing else, in order for the controller to accurately monitor the panel output. Otherwise the controller cannot accurately adjust the charging current running from the controller to the batteries. This means the controller should also be wired directly to the batteries by suitably sized positive and negative cables, so the controller also can accurately monitor the actual battery state as part of the charging process. It’s unavoidable to “ground” the controller’s “ground” (not negative) terminal to the vehicle chassis “ground”, the same “ground” as the batteries are connected to. But that’s not the same as running your panel output directly through the vehicle’s “ground”. That’s my view of it, based just on how my system works. |
_________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2325 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Have you tested the setup yet? I know a user on here grounded his similarly and had trouble with his solar controller when he switched from a PMW to MPPT controller.
https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/7190...ry-pv.html
Quote: |
The positive and negative wiring of the panels needs to be connected directly to the solar charge controller, and nothing else, in order for the controller to accurately monitor the panel output. Otherwise the controller cannot accurately adjust the charging current running from the controller to the batteries. This means the controller should also be wired directly to the batteries by suitably sized positive and negative cables, so the controller also can accurately monitor the actual battery state as part of the charging process. It’s unavoidable to “ground” the controller’s “ground” (not negative) terminal to the vehicle chassis “ground”, the same “ground” as the batteries are connected to. But that’s not the same as running your panel output directly through the vehicle’s “ground”. That’s my view of it, based just on how my system works. |
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I can testify that using the chassis of the Van as the ground connection for both the solar panel and a Renogy PWM controller is just fine. My setup is very similar to Sodo's, but I have a 2" visible loop of wire just in front of the spice rack. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Grounding....very interesting.
Seems a little obvious now that I’ve seen more than a few solar installations by people who ought to know and don’t recall seeing them chassis grounded.
Cutting the wire run in half is compelling.
I can’t think of the principle as to why it would be any different but I suppose someone knows. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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I mean if it works then dont sweat it. If i had to imagine it would make a difference because your panel doesnt produce 12v. It produces like 19v. But youre grounding to a 12v circuit. If anything you might lose 5% efficiency. Or maybe none at all. Just thought id relay info from another thread.
You did a good job sealing up that hole. I also dig the strain relief clamp _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
I would snake it up the route you went, and then grab it with the hooked end of a coat hanger from the dome light hole. Pull the wire through the dome hole. Drill a hole up under the cargo rack and snake the wire up to that hole and grab with aforementioned hook. |
OK now I understand.
It kinda looks like to do this project, you have to hack a big jagged hole in the roof.
It can be done nearly as you wrote. The wire comes up from the lower cabinet, behind the spice shelf, above the headliner card, and then thru the roof somewhere out in the open where you can drill a nice round hole for a grommet.
I'll go back and edit the top post so it doesn't look like you have to hack a hole in the roof with the jaws of life to do this project. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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a2wolfsburggli Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2018 Posts: 279 Location: WI
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Nope...I'd never open my van up like a tin can like this. I couldn't do it.
Syncronoid wrote: |
When I did my solar from the luggage compartment, I ran the wire in under the lower tent strip. From here it could easily be brought down into the cabinet in several ways.
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This ^^^^^^^^^^
Simple, clean, elegant, waterproof. _________________ Current: '87 Westfalia | '16 Audi Q5 3.0T S-Line w/sport package.
Past: '09 CC 3.6L 4motion "R36 wannabe" | '02 Audi TT "ALMS Edition" | '84 Jetta GLI with Autotech Supercharger | '89 Helios Jetta GLI 16v's (x2) | '95.5 URS6 | and the list goes on.
Never underestimate the entertainment value of OCD overruling Common Sense |
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DeLvxe Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2019 Posts: 106 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Hidden wire to Westy fwd cargo area via driver pillar |
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Sodo,
This is a really elegant factory-like solution. It seems like the sausage making may have set some folks off, but I for one thank you for making the sausage and sharing the process and outcome. I'm in the process of trying to add solar to my alternator charging and will keep this route in mind.
Quick question, how did you route the solar wire through the luggage rack? Drain hole or drill a separate hole? _________________ 1991 manual camper with EJ25 |
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1349 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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