New classic manx #93

[matthewl]

So I've been pondering some ideas on how I want to build this manx, once the rail is done. I want it to look like it came straight out of the mid 70's but may have had an update or two in it's life time. So the thing I have been thinking about the most lately is the engine. My original thought was a nicely modified single port ( I love single ports) with kads, dual cannon cyclone exhaust, a mild cam and 1914 cc of displacement. But then I seen a picture of an golden orange Manx on the internet ( Damm internet giving me ideas) with a chrome 140hp corvair, and it looked sweet. Plus that sound of a flat 6 is cool.

So after I did some research, the corvair route is not that cheap as I would do the reverse rotation cam swap and a rebuild as its all apart anyways. Also in my area the 140hp is rare, most are 95 and 110HP model. Which is more than enough to push a Manx along very well. But it doesn't look as cool as a four carb 140hp engine, also I worry about parts availability in the future.

Then I got to thinking what is the modern version of a corvair? The Subaru flat 6 EZ30 . It would probably cost as much as the corvair with the wiring, fuel system, computer and radiator. But I could replace it for around $700 if it ever had a major failure. Plus they have 230hp stock, which is way more than I could get from the corvair. If I went this route the radiator is the main draw back to me. I'm not going to cut the body up or have it hanging out the back. I would put it behind the rear package tray.

So what do you guys think

1. SINGLE PORT
2. CORVAIR
3. H6 SUBARU

I know it's my manx and to do what I want. But I just want to hear others ideas about what they would do. Or what they would have liked to of done.
Tell me which idea you like and why please as it will help me nail down a final plan.
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[oprn]

My personal opinion is that if you really do want to retain the original Manx look then it needs an air cooled engine. Also it needs to be an upright fan VW or a Corvair. I put a Type 4 Bus engine in mine with the Bus cooling system and it just looks wrong. I should have done the upright cooling system to get the correct look.

The size of the engine you use will be dictated by what you will be using the Buggy for. If it's just for taking the kids for ice cream and putting around town a 1200cc 40 hp engine is very authentic and is instantly recognizable as VW. In a light Buggy it's all the power you need around the neighborhood and for back country road exploring. If you plan on doing some serious highway touring you need more engine than that. A 1600cc SP is going to frustrate you at times. Consider an 1776cc or larger and about 80 HP but that will be tough to do with a single port.

Ours is for serious road trips and the Type 4 Bus engine (85-90 HP) works well. I seriously considered a water pumper (TDI for torque on the hills and fuel economy/range) but just could not imagine how all the hoses and rads could be hidden to keep it from looking like a rolling junkyard!

Corvair engines in my view are very cool and was considered the ultimate upgrade back in the late '60s. Even the lower powered twin carb models had more than enough jam. The problem for me is they are rare like hen's teeth and like you stated not that easy to find parts for.

[AMAC1680]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on HP.
I have a 260 subi manxter, VW Kickout SS 1776 and the Corvair 140 crown.

The SS with the 1776 will drag me around town quick and do a steady 75 on the slab if need.

The manxter is a beast. Fast off the line smooth at idle and stable in the Florida summer heat.

The Corvair has torque, power and sound cool. Requires more maintenance than the other two.

At the end of the day the 1776 in the ss is more than enough for the car.
If originality, parts avail And easy of maintaining were any concern I’d go VW.

If I were thinking superslab it’s the subi.

Enjoy the build !



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[matthewl]

I guess I should state the intended purpose of this buggy. It will see a lot of highway miles, as most VW shows are 100+ mile trips and one annual 800 mile 24hour trip. Also we plan on doing rocky mountain race week when we get it done. I plan on some mild trail riding in the Ocala National Forest and some bracket racing every now and again.

I thought about a stroker 40hp with a zenith carb. But dropped that idea as good heads are not easy to come by (373 square boss). I've built several 2200cc+ VWs and enjoyed that but I'm getting over the go fast stuff now. The last motor was a 2220cc SP (94x80) and some would say that is disappointing but I call it a tease. All torque no HP, but real fun in stop and go traffic and plenty of passing power.

The corvair is the coolest in my opinion. But I worry about the parts, I had a 63 corvair and it was fairly reliable. Except for the two times that caught on fire LOL..

I have no experience with the Subaru.

Thank you guys for the first hand experience, it's helping weed out what I want to do.
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[matthewl]

Oprn I did think of a type IV also, like the whole drivetrain from a 912E . But those gear boxes have gone crazy in price lately. Plus like you said the type IV cooling system just doesn't do it in the looks department. And I don't think anyone came up with an upright conversion in the mid 70's, all tho the Schely brothers used one in their dragster in 74.

Thinking the SP is the best way to go. But that flat six sound has a hook in me LOL.
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[oprn]

Nextgen on this site did a type 1 upright fan conversion years ago and sells the plans for it. The conversion looks very convincingly like a Beetle engine and is the route I would go next time. He even adapted the type 1 thermostat and flaps. I am not a fan of some of the other upright conversions as most of them do not include the tins for the lower 1/2 of the engine or any temp control.

I get were you are going with this Buggy. Interesting about the 2200cc SP! I would love to drive one of those and see how they feel on the road. I am building a SP right now for our sand rail but am just going 1641cc because it is a trail riding only car and will not be licenced for the road. No point in building in a lot of HP that will never get used.

If I were to build a SP for this Manx copy I would be tempted to put a hair dryer on it with about 6 psi boost to make up for the breathing deficiency of the heads. The challenge then would be to hide it well enough to still have a correct looking "vintage" engine at first glance. I would then mount a fake cannon on one side and functioning one on the other just because the dual cannon look to me is the correct one for these cars.

[slalombuggy]

Why limit yourself to a SP when there are so many good DP heads to choose from?

If I had to choose between a VW engine and the other 2 I would build a 82x92 with good heads and a mild cam. Would easily crank out what the Corvair would for less money, fit in the car without modifying for a cooling system and be dead reliable. On the highways an engine like that won't even be working pushing your buggy along at a comfortable clip

If you aren't chasing horsepower, a big displacement, moderately cammed VW engine is not a lot more work than a stock one. It's when you start chasing the dragon and pushing it that maintenance becomes more important. Buy GOOD carb linkage is about the only major issue with dual carbs, so yo can set 'em and forget 'em.

brad

[manxvair]

I have buggy's with all 3 of your choices, 2180 VW in a Meyers Tow'd, 110 Corvair(previously 140) in a Meyers Manx "Manxvair" and a Subaru powered Meyers Manx Dual Sport Baja Edition. We have driven all 3 all over the US, the Manxvair and Dual Sport have been driven to the tip of Baja and back. I have no complaints/regrets about any of them. Like anything else attention to detail when building well help in reliability. My Corvair has been driven from So-Cal to the Outer Banks(2013) Cabo San Lucas, Baja CA(2014) Buffalo, NY(2015) and then failed on another trip, the problem was preventable in the original engine build. I would always carry a spare distributor and alternator due to the difficulty of sourcing a replacement if needed on the road(I never did) Love the power of the Corvair. Subaru is modern technology and doesn't' require exotic tweaking but radiator locating. VW is old technology but properly built can be very reliable, I know several buggy owners that have driven across the US with VW power. My wife drove her Tow'd from So-Cal to St Louis, then to NV and back to So-Cal approx 4600 miles, only suffered a failed aftermarket electronic ignition module and 1 exhaust gasket failure. Regardless of your choice, my recommendation is to take the time and pay attention to the details when preparing the engine package.

[matthewl]

Oprn been there and done that with the turbo SP and it was FUN. More fun to drive than my 2332,FK7 , super D 42x37.5 , 44idf motor was. Its like driving a modern turbo diesel.
Making it look vintage would be real cool, and hard to do in a mostly open buggy.

Check out the link below for a ride in my Single port
https://youtu.be/i9WAm1uzBhg
It went easy 13's with more left in it.
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[matthewl]

Slalom buggy I agree that a 2200+ dual port is a wise choice for most and see it done a lot, and have done it several times. But I'm kinda going for the vintage look. And yes I am aware that some guys had dual carb dual ports in the 70's, just not in my neck of the woods. Talking to the older VW guys that were playing with them here in the 70's- 80's say that most buggy's were 40hp and corvair powered. They tell me it was very rare to see a dual carb dual port buggy.

Heck when I got in to VWs in 1998 most were stockers with progressive and ICT's. If you had an 1835 you were one of the big dogs. Now almost ever car you see at a show is a 1776 or larger with 40idf and while that is a great combo, I just want to do something different.

As for the Subaru I know that is not vintage, I just to see what people that have done it say. I would only do that swap for the 6 cylinder, if I go 4 cylinder in this Manx it's going to be VW.
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[matthewl]

Manxvair thank you that is some good information and helps a lot. If you don't mind what failed on the corvair? You say it was a 140 and now a 110 so I'm guessing it drop a valve seat?? When I get this Manx done I would love to do a coast to coast trip, sounds like great fun to me.
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[oprn]

Love that SP turbo, my kind of engine! 2500 to 4000 RPM powerband is perfect!

When I hear a VW engine screaming away at 7 or 8K I think "That's not even a VW engine!" and truth be told - it isn't. There are too few VW parts in there to call it a VW anymore. But - that's just me... and the fact that the VW performance community has managed to bring this old engine technology that close to modern is impressive for sure.

Carry on with the SP idea, it looks like you know what you are doing. Keep us posted! We just might learn something from you.

[Rockbound]

very nice! cant wait to see the progress

[manxvair]

[matthewl]

Manxvair that's too dad about the cam gear, goes to shows that the fail safe gear is needed in the corvair.

So thank you guys for all the replys on the engine ideas. I'm kinda glad to here that no one said " I did that and never will never do it again" .

So the Subaru is out, not old-school and not much support for the 6 cylinder in the aftermarket.

The corvair has that old-school look and cool sound, but would be harder to get parts for on the fly. I will probably build one at some time and switch it out from time to time.

So the old VW type one is the winner for me. Even though parts at a STD auto parts store are not always available. There are still plenty of air-cooled VW shops across the country, to get what I need to stay on the road.

So with that decision out of the way I bought a part for the motor. I really should not be buying stuff for the manx until the rail is done. But I figured these might not be available to much longer, so I pulled the trigger on a set.

After I bought them ( on Amazon) the price went up up $40 sorry guys . The quality looks good but only time will tell.
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[matthewl]

So I got a part for the manx for Christmas.
A Delswift mirror from my amazing wife.

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[oprn]

Nice!

[matthewl]

So I got a chassis for the manx. Body is junk ( perfect for me) but the tunnel is in good shape and it has disc brakes and an adjustable beam. Good starting point for the build. Now I just have to tie up the loose ends on my rail buggy lol.

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[matthewl]

Got my steering wheel from mooney's today. It matches the golden orange pretty well may be a shade darker but still a good match.

With some light on it it's real close.
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[weasel_ugs]

Is close enough for me! That looks awesome!