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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17007 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 5:17 am Post subject: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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I’m bored. But thought I’d share my driving impressions of my new to me Syncro Camper.
Even though I worked for VW back in the 90s, my vanagon driving experience was limited to road tests around the block. Didn’t make enough back then to own one. I did have a 68 camper with a 1600 that I did drive cross country a lot.
Spring forward and all my miles have been in our 82 camper with the TDI. It really is an excellent package. Probably what was needed back in the day.
I recently finished converting an automatic 90 camper to a syncro drive train. I used a running 87 donor syncro. Stage 2 is to convert it to TDI power. I have the donor waiting. After all the WBX sucks right?
Wrong. The syncro is my current daily driver. 180,000 mile on the speedo. No history on the engine. It’s from the 87. It was easier to do the conversion using the donor engine mated to the trans. It was coming back out anyway. Right?
300 miles so far. I have to say I’m impressed. It starts quickly, gets acceptable mpg, and in city traffic has no problem keeping up with traffic. It’s nice enough I’m going to postpone the engine conversion for now. Time to fix the AC.
Anyone else love their 2.1 WBX? _________________ ☮️ |
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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4561 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 5:30 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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I'm with you! I love my stock as hell original 2.1 engine in my '87 Westfalia Camper GL. I only have about 70,000 miles on this rig but it purrs like a kitten and gets me there.
Bill _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 5:55 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Congratulations on loving the stock drivetrain. It's great for all of us that Stock replacement parts and upgraded versions exist to still allow the WBX'ers to roll down the road.
And, if that doesn't suit your tastes, there are conversion engine kits and options available too.
Quite a task, converting a 2wd to the Syncro.... Don't think I could talk myself into doing that. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 2982 Location: MD
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:21 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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I think 90% of my driving (granted I'm not commuting to work anymore) in the last month has been my Syncro. Yesterday I picked up dinner in my 97 540i 6 speed and I was reminded how nice that car is. Smooth, quick, quiet, comfortable. It's only issue is that it seems to hate AC fans, no idea why. They just die regularly.
But the Syncro puts a smile on my face! It's absolutely ridiculous as a vehicle and I love it. It produces a lot of anxiety driving it though. I worry about the transmission, that 1-2 shift can be pretty clacky/crunchy if the clutch isnt in the absolute perfect spot. It seems to run 195ishF and I am used to 180F so that constantly makes me worried. The front outer CV joints keep shooting out axle grease. The AC lines need to be replaced (one is broken) and I have zero AC experience. It's still pretty loud in the cabin. The acceleration is fairly slow. Lately the coolant smell whenever I turn on the rear heater is really strong, so that needs to be looked into. And there's more...
Doesn't stop me from driving it whenever I can! _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:24 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Ahhhh... A WBX Lovefest. I'm in, wouldn't have it any other way. |
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thatbaldwinlife Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2011 Posts: 759 Location: Out exploring
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:36 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Does it count if I love my 2.2L WBX from Rocky?
nate _________________ 1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16473 Location: Brookeville, MD
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mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2778 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:51 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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x7. I decided a while ago that the 2.1 meets all of my needs for now and I'm focussed on updating everything else. My recommendations for anyone having running issues and/or wondering if they can get more out of the 2.1 are as follows:
- Do all the tests in Digifant Pro Training Manual, A to Z, and write your results down. You'll learn the operating system, find anything that's not in spec (my coil, for example, still worked but had marginal #'s, so I replaced it), and you'll be able to refer to your baseline #'s when you test stuff in the future.
- Get the injectors professionally cleaned or if they can't be cleaned get the Mansi injectors.
- Check for all vacuum leaks and fix them. The gasket between the plenum/throttle body and the throttle body itself can be particularly suspect.
- Set the timing at full advance a la tencent and/or GoWesty instructions.
- If your fuel pump is loud, replace it with a quality one even if your fuel pressure is good.
All those steps either addressed running issues or gave me MUCH more confidence with my motor. Of course, none are a cure-all. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4332 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 7:07 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Mark,
I too drove earlier Transporters to all corners of NA. Work Horses, no doubt. My Vanagon adventures started relatively recently. Got my present daily driver in 2015, did a head reseal, and put on 25,000 miles completely stock.
Going over the engine in fall of 2019, I started finding things that could use some attention, some leaks, some rubber bits, etc. and after working on the exhaust piecemeal for 4 years, got the Corkins/RMW exhaust. I am not always happy with the sound, but I am usually. I can't hear it at 65mph anyway, so that is fine with me. I'd also like to add that it did seem to bump up the usability of the engine, and taught me that 5K RPMs is where I should shift. It certainly changed my attitude about the 2.1WBX in a very good way.
I have been assisting my kids with a Subaru 2.2 transplant, which seems to have stalled, but I still expect that after this 'new way' of life has settled in and people start sleeping better again, the project will get traction and I will get to see the difference between the two.
Also, I am looking forward to a build based on a stock 2.1WBX, I was fortunate enough to find a complete engine that was removed for a Bostig transplant, and I will plot out a build over the next few years. I don't foresee my '87 daily drive getting a transplant any time in the near future. I am fortunate enough to have an 83.5 tintop that I could do some experimenting on, but It is also bone stock at the moment and I will probably want to find out what a 1.9WBX is like too, when I revive it after slumbering since 1999.
I'd also like to have gobs more power, as the TDI would offer, but wow, that is a lot of work or money or both. In addition to that, depending on your driving style or terrain, the TDI may not be the best choice for the Syncro transaxle. I do not know this from personal experience, but I would hate to have not had it mentioned prior to my Syncro getting torn up, if it were me.
Even though there are 4 Transporters waiting in my yard, I still can't keep myself from a few hours of the sport of 'spotting VW's' here, and on CL, and FB. Perhaps some day I will find a Syncro, but I sure hope by then I have a LOT more money to focus on this hobby.
-bobby _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6798 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 7:30 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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0 to 60mph was 19.2 sec.
No speed records broken when introduced and none broken today.
Yet I see no reason to convert from the 2.1 WBX as it does okay for itself in my Syncro with 29.3 dia tires and stock R&P 5.83.
Accelerates fast enough to work for me. Fast enough around town and steady 70 mph on the freeways. Same engine since 2016 has started every time...except when I forget the theft switch.
Initials issue due to cheap PO using plain water in Cooling Sys. 2 bottles of Subaru Coolant conditioner and no leaks to worry about since 2016. Had fluctuating oil pressure problem until switching to Mobil 1 synthetic.
It just runs and runs and runs.
I have DJ engine sitting, but not seeing a reason to change it.
_________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17007 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Quote: |
Quite a task, converting a 2wd to the Syncro.... Don't think I could talk myself into doing that |
That's how I ended up with 2 vanagon campers. I did not trust I could see the project through on our 82. Figured a second camper project would be a better idea if the project got stalled or worse, got in over my head. There were points when I was "OMG, what have I done?" I'd have panicked if it was our sorted 82, which would have been unhelpful.
I find it smooth and quiet in up front. Shifting is like a hot knife through butter, but I did go through the transaxle during the process. I need to drive both in the same day for a comparison. Keep the love coming. _________________ ☮️ |
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baltik Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2015 Posts: 440
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 7:38 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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I too can relate to this thread. A well tuned WBX is a like a precision sewing machine back there. Having said that I think it's important to recognize what I suspect are the two biggest factors in a Vanagon owner's WBX happiness. Configuration and elevation. Daily driving my old WBX powered westy - I had no issues around town and on the highway. It was a pleasure to cruise in. Moving to a syncro westy loaded with appropriate tires, full water tank, camping supplies, a family of 4 and suddenly the pep is gone. Add a few thousand feet of elevation climbing to that mixture and we get into unpleasant/dangerous territory right away.. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:10 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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In addition - for maximum enjoyment of the WBX, I think suitable selection of shift points is important.
I've had 56 years of driving small under-powered sports cars with 4 cylinder engines that require high RPMs to perform well.
Sometimes drivers are used to 'modern' cars and tend to shift to soon, robbing the WBX of what power it has. |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Waterboxer all the way. I have 3 Vanagons that share my driveaway.
2.1 WBX DJ
2.2 Subaru
1.6 TD
The Dj is the best of them, the torque curve is perfect. There are no holes or gaps when shifting. I've gone through the all of the systems and upgraded everything, from SS tubes to a throttle body rebuild . . .
People bad rap WBX's but they rarely leave you stranded when you give them a little attention. Listen to them when they're running, open the deck lid once in a while and just look at the belts or take it and give it a little clean, so when it needs work you don't get all dirty.
Always remember that this is not your wife's Lexus, it's going to a little more attention. But I always get many smiles per mile when driving any of the 3 in my driveway.
With the world shut down it's a great time to do those needed repairs or those upgrades you've been putting off.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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a2wolfsburggli Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2018 Posts: 279 Location: WI
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:57 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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I'm perfectly happy with the 2.1 WBX when it's in good tune.
My only really issue is when trying to maintain 70+mph, uphill with a 20mph headwind...lol. Foot on the floor and hoping that I don't start dropping MPH.
I imagine mountain travel would be similarly challenged. Not something we have here in WI or the greater Midwest. _________________ Current: '87 Westfalia | '16 Audi Q5 3.0T S-Line w/sport package.
Past: '09 CC 3.6L 4motion "R36 wannabe" | '02 Audi TT "ALMS Edition" | '84 Jetta GLI with Autotech Supercharger | '89 Helios Jetta GLI 16v's (x2) | '95.5 URS6 | and the list goes on.
Never underestimate the entertainment value of OCD overruling Common Sense |
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coqcitywesty Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2018 Posts: 401 Location: Coquitlam, BC
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 10:10 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Well, I don’t have 30 years of Westy driving experience and all I know after 3 years is my 225K KM’s 2.1 stock WBX with Mansi injectors, so I don’t have an alternate reference point. What I do know is that around town and on relatively flat road surfaces, I simply love it. I love the sound and can now pick up another one approaching simply by the cadence. However, as pointed out above, when it is introduced to any sort of elevation, (and as evidenced by our 2019 trip though MO, WY, CO, UT, ID) or any strong headwind (looking at you WY) it does become somewhat challenging and possibly dangerous. Driving on the shoulder, straining to maintain 20 mph while others are flying by at 70 mph is admittedly disconcerting. I don’t have a solution to that dilemma other than a Rocky or GW build, but in the interim driving it ‘as is’ does put a smile on my face every time. _________________ 1991 Westfalia EJ251, 1972 Volvo 1800 ES |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4715 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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i washed my 2.1 engine the other day because it was getting a little dusty...
i'd take it anywhere now with just an oil change before i go, that's it. with the coolant distributor tower and pressure tank changed to metal, my worry factor is really low. sure i carry spares, maybe a rediculous amount, but few things tickle my fancy like driving a 33 y.o. vehicle with confidence.
i'm fine with conversions but the 2.1 really meets my needs, except in mountains. there i just try to abide and things work out. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:55 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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MarkWard wrote: |
300 miles so far. I have to say I’m impressed. It starts quickly, gets acceptable mpg, and in city traffic has no problem keeping up with traffic. It’s nice enough I’m going to postpone the engine conversion for now. Time to fix the AC.
Anyone else love their 2.1 WBX? |
When I first got my '88 I found the engine to be just fine for power in spite of having lower compression readings at one head. I liked the sound of it and how it pulled relatively well at take off. I invested in it thinking I'd have it for the long term but a subsequent discovery of a "puking" coolant fill bottle quelled that.
Were it not for the suspected fire ring(s) failure I would've kept the engine.
In hindsight, having converted that van to a different engine, keeping it stock would've been helpful; in the near future I may have to rely on a pro mechanic to do the upkeep.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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CessnaJon Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2008 Posts: 677 Location: Senoia,GA
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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Love my 229k mile 2.1 as well. It’s a peppy little thing with the following mods:
Techtonics eprom
Go Westy throttle body
Marco injectors
Marco rockers
Vintage speed 2-1 exhaust
I know my engine is living on borrowed time at this mileage. When he finally says farewell, I’ll call rocky Jennings. _________________ 1973 Westy (shared birthday)
1990 Westy Multivan
2015 Passat TDI 6sp
2015 Sportwagon TDI 6sp
LR-JET, Gulfstream 159 |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4332 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 WBX Driving Impressions 30 Years Later |
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CessnaJon wrote: |
Love my 229k mile 2.1 as well. It’s a peppy little thing with the following mods:
Techtonics eprom
Go Westy throttle body
Marco injectors
Marco rockers
Vintage speed 2-1 exhaust
I know my engine is living on borrowed time at this mileage. When he finally says farewell, I’ll call rocky Jennings. |
I dig your Mods list.. I have want of the Techtonics eprom, and the 'spare' TB I put in last fall is in acceptable shape, but still should be an upgraded version rather than yet another spare...
Did you do this set of mods relatively quickly, or did you have an adequate amount of time to get to know the feel of each one prior to adding the next?
I happened to do larger tires (195/75/14 - > 215/60/16) Marco Injectors, 1.25/1 rockers together, then a acoustic tuned exhaust after another few weeks. Each had a good boost.
I'm game for the full enrichment computer mod soon, but I'd like to hear remarks on it anyway.
As for 229,000 miles: Hmmm.. Just to mention that mine is at 301,xxx miles with only heads/reseal top ends. However, of course, I have one spare nearly ready, and 2 other rebuildable engines waiting for when this one tires out. Im getting to 60MPH in ~20 seconds on a full Westy with full tanks and all my tools. Seems unbelievable. I can get 20 MPG if I take it easy, and also I can get down to 15MPG pushing 85MPH across the Dakotas. It'll run flat out no problem across 3 states if I want it to. (It floats so nice above 75)
-bobby _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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