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vee dub dan Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 445 Location: Pennsylvannia
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 2:31 pm Post subject: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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So in case this matter, I pulled my car out of the garage from winter which goes up a steep grass hill, no issues. I put it on ramps and leveled it out to change the transmission oil, and it got rained on outside. The next day I tried to take it for a drive and have no power at all, if you hold the gas down it dies.
All 4 cylinders are getting fuel and spark. Compression is good, valves are good.
We found my distributor rotor has a decent amount of backlash, see this video. It moves a decent amount without the rotor moving.
Link
I had it static timed as it should be, with a VJU4BR distributor. Timing light shows it jumping all around. We advanced it some to see if it behaved different, and it did not. Video of timing, it's a little hard to see but it's jumping from TDC to the mark being almost where the belt touches the pulley.
Link
Is my distributor drive gear on the crank worn, or is it as simple as bad points or condenser?
Any thoughts? _________________ 1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter
Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA |
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leowagen Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2018 Posts: 171 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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I had similar issues... I'll describe what I did...
I first removed the fuel pump. Throught its hole in the case you can inspect the brass dist gear. Mine was ok. Not cracked, pitted or with strange things in its helix.
I then checked my distributor. Had its internals sticking all over. Centrifugal plate weights were stuck in aged gunk. I sanded with very fine grit sand paper its sliding surfaces. My vacuum advance canister was not working. So I managed to find a new one. Being inside there new point and condenser. Cheched the point lobes (had an issue in another beetle: a worn cam was driving me crazy. I learnt I had to adjust my point gap using this worn lobe.
Check distributor drive shaft end play. Its shims in the lower end might be missing. Check the intrrface between distributor lower shaft gear and its input shaft. My dizzy was not reaching properly the drive slot in the drive shaft iside the case. No matter how nicely I static timed it it would cough and sneeze when fired on.
Last but not least, rotor, cap, cables and plugs. One or more plugs might got some varnish from unburnt fuel andsome oil that reaches past a worn ring.... some wire brush in the sparks could have magical effects in how the motor runs!
Good luck and stay safe! |
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ecallaway Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2020 Posts: 164 Location: Encinitas, California
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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I have no clue but will put in my two cents to get the ball rolling.
Fuel filter clogged? |
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vee dub dan Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 445 Location: Pennsylvannia
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:36 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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ecallaway wrote: |
I have no clue but will put in my two cents to get the ball rolling.
Fuel filter clogged? |
Filter and all rubber fuel line are brand new
leowagen wrote: |
I had similar issues... I'll describe what I did...
I first removed the fuel pump. Throught its hole in the case you can inspect the brass dist gear. Mine was ok. Not cracked, pitted or with strange things in its helix.
I then checked my distributor. Had its internals sticking all over. Centrifugal plate weights were stuck in aged gunk. I sanded with very fine grit sand paper its sliding surfaces. My vacuum advance canister was not working. So I managed to find a new one. Being inside there new point and condenser. Cheched the point lobes (had an issue in another beetle: a worn cam was driving me crazy. I learnt I had to adjust my point gap using this worn lobe.
Check distributor drive shaft end play. Its shims in the lower end might be missing. Check the intrrface between distributor lower shaft gear and its input shaft. My dizzy was not reaching properly the drive slot in the drive shaft iside the case. No matter how nicely I static timed it it would cough and sneeze when fired on.
Last but not least, rotor, cap, cables and plugs. One or more plugs might got some varnish from unburnt fuel andsome oil that reaches past a worn ring.... some wire brush in the sparks could have magical effects in how the motor runs!
Good luck and stay safe! |
I will try these suggestions, it felt like 1 & 2 we're not firing so I cleaned and checked the spark plugs gaps already.
Thanks for some things to look for! _________________ 1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter
Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9880 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 9:03 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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There is play that is designed into the gear interaction. I doubt anything is worn there. Never seen that happen, ever.
If your timing is jumping around, it may be the timing light. Have you tried a different light?
Also, some plug wires are hard to get a good signal from, maybe try a different wire, to time it.
Just off of the sound. It sounds like a fuel issue. Can you keep it running by spraying shots of starting fluid into the carb? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Snort Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005 Posts: 1957 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:16 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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Pull the idle jet out and blow it out with compressed air. Plug one of the side holes and blow from the other so that any debris gets pushed out. |
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Bub Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 1143 Location: Central Washington
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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I think my 36hp had that problem right after I got finished rebuilding it- and actually before that.
So I started fresh - point, condenser, perfectly clean carb etc. I found that my distributor -VJrBR25- was a little gummy/ bouncy/ sticky and sometimes I'd get a full 21-25* advance below 2k.
So I took it apart, cleaned and lubed everything and filed a little bit off the weights. Adjusting the weight is a trial and error thing, but I've done it a bizillion times and somehow it works.
I still have to set it TOO FAR advanced - I'm at just about 12* BTDC or it runs like shit. Runs even better 15* 'ish advanced but I lose a ton of power.
And then the carb. I bought an NOS carb and it still took a week to get it dialed in decently.
Lastly; seems like 36hp tuning is 150% completely pointless if the engine isn't really hot. Don't touch anything when it's cold.
A new condenser never hurts; it fools you because they last forever and can get glitchy long before you ever think about replacing it. Mine was toast. _________________
hitest wrote: |
Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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Given the scenarios it's likely a fuel blockage at the fuel shutoff valve maybe give it a turn or try it on reserve. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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MrVWGuy Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2010 Posts: 643 Location: North of Pittsburgh PA
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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Any updates? _________________ '63 Bus (camper of unknown origin)
'62 Beetle
'68 Kombi
'76 Westfalia camper, the wife's |
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vee dub dan Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 445 Location: Pennsylvannia
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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So I got busy and this got put on the back burner. I tried a different distributor, points, rotor, etc and no change. Tonight i pulled the main jet from the carb and it was plugged up. Cleaned it out and it's idling great! Still need to test drive but I was able to rev it and let it idle when I couldn't before.
Thanks for everyone's help and ideas! _________________ 1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter
Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA |
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cbki30 Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2013 Posts: 19
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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Just came across this thread as searching for similar advice on my 57 oval. Seems like I am having the same problems. Just wondering , is there any update since your last post ? My car is currently with my mechanic and to date we have replaced fuel pump with refurb unit, changed points , checked HT leads. Noticed some sooting on plugs so they were cleaned. Spark and compression ok and seems fuel getting to where it should be. When changed vacuum cannister it actually ran worse. Currently timed at 7.5 btc static. Can manage to get idle but any revs or load and end up having rough running and idle. Mechanic has now cleaned out carb and found some black pieces floating around. Back to testing tomorrow. This whole issue stemmed from some rough starting when hot; thought it was a fuel pump issue so hence why decided to rebuild pump. Then ended up getting a further replacement rebuilt unit as issues still present. Totally fed up with my car just now. |
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vee dub dan Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 445 Location: Pennsylvannia
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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cbki30 wrote: |
Just came across this thread as searching for similar advice on my 57 oval. Seems like I am having the same problems. Just wondering , is there any update since your last post ? My car is currently with my mechanic and to date we have replaced fuel pump with refurb unit, changed points , checked HT leads. Noticed some sooting on plugs so they were cleaned. Spark and compression ok and seems fuel getting to where it should be. When changed vacuum cannister it actually ran worse. Currently timed at 7.5 btc static. Can manage to get idle but any revs or load and end up having rough running and idle. Mechanic has now cleaned out carb and found some black pieces floating around. Back to testing tomorrow. This whole issue stemmed from some rough starting when hot; thought it was a fuel pump issue so hence why decided to rebuild pump. Then ended up getting a further replacement rebuilt unit as issues still present. Totally fed up with my car just now. |
The main jet was clogged and I had a small sputter or two while driving but it's been good! Hopefully the cleaned out carb does it for you! _________________ 1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter
Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA |
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jborregoy2k Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2016 Posts: 30 Location: El Carmen de Viboral, Colombia
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp timing issue / not running right |
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Check the pickup of the timing light, I had similar jumping problems in the light (not the engine) and it was solved “hanging” the cable up a bit with the pickup (the pickup cable around the lid hinge) so it was separated from the other ignition cable and maybe getting better signal.
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
There is play that is designed into the gear interaction. I doubt anything is worn there. Never seen that happen, ever.
If your timing is jumping around, it may be the timing light. Have you tried a different light?
Also, some plug wires are hard to get a good signal from, maybe try a different wire, to time it.
Just off of the sound. It sounds like a fuel issue. Can you keep it running by spraying shots of starting fluid into the carb? |
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