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theghiagirl
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Near Portland, OR
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 Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Thank you to everyone for the kind words, comments and suggestions. I'm still working on some of the finishing touches...it's always a difficult challenge to know where to stop. I'm hoping to have it listed within the next couple of months. |
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52brezelfenster
Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 761
Location: OR
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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Hi Lisa, we've sold a couple of our vintage Honda motorcycles on BAT this year. Really good people to deal with, highly recommend giving it a go.
The conversation around reserve is a little tricky depending on their knowledge of the market and what they feel is fair and reasonable vs what you're comfortable with.
Dustin |
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moogie32
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| rbsurfguy wrote: |
i wish we could all know, since somewhere down the road someone may consider a purchase from this person and not be aware of any negative feedback. Not everyone reads these posts except the majority of the regulars. People doing bad things that rip people off in our community should be called out, if they have a problem with it, they can answer to and be judged by the community. We need to stop protecting scammers, unless of course everyone is worried about some type of lawsuit, which is always the go to for scammers when they get exposed.
Just my two cents.....
Jeff |
Hi Jeff, I know what you mean but I want to limit what can be seen by just anyone to protect myself. Once people hear my story they are more than welcome to tell other people - honestly, it took a lot for me to post anything at all but I felt the need to alert the community. All I ask is that you PM me. Hope you can understand- Thanks! Diane
_________________
RIP HBB (1984-2009)
Du liefst so gut
Du warst so schön
Doch leider musst du von uns gehn |
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Loren
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004
Posts: 1701
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| The Ghia looks good from a distance, but the details show a different story. The engine bay is the first place I look to determine the quality of the restoration. Why is the battery sideways? looks like the board behind the engine has been spray painted with gloss paint, the hoses look old, what is the funky piece of ??? on the passenger side of the breast plate? is that the engine bay seal? Why not detail the interior, vacuum it and remove the cheap floor mats. Why isn't there a seal on the driver side door? I shudder to think what is under that shiny paint job. This Ghia should definately be viewed in person before any bid is placed. |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4114
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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Hopefully those of us who decide to comment about a vehicle on BAT will do so in a responsible and honest way. The sellers should do their due diligence in providing an honest representation.
Most BAT Karmann Ghia sellers IMO seem to provide a fairly honest description. The few that might deceive by non-disclosure are or should be quickly called out. I'm not sure if BAT has a mechanism to bar dishonest sellers. If they don't, they should!
I think the dealers going to hurt BAT's reputation in the long run.
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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Wow. Ghia’s seem to do pretty good on BAT. Poor clueless bastards 
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4114
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| Wow. Ghia’s seem to do pretty good on BAT. Poor clueless bastards |
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69830
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| kingkarmann wrote: |
| Ultimately the winner of this Ghia is probably going to discover an issue or two that did not come up during the sale. My guess it's not going to be a big deal. I hope it sells well! |
If you buy a old VW, not matter what the condition, and DON'T find any issues that would be a miracle. Even the few super nice, "all original" cars I've owned had some sort of issue or something I wanted to immediately fix or correct.
To me, that's part of the appeal... I want something to do on it. 
They key is you want to have enough information beforehand that it's something that's either minor or doesn't kill your excitement about getting the car. Engine blows up when the seller said it was perfect? This is a problem and gets into misrepresentation. Horn stops working the next day when seller said everything works? Big deal... fix it.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1678
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Loren wrote: |
| Why is the battery sideways? |
It's not, that's how they were in 67. My 67 coupe had the battery oriented that way as well.
It's an asinine way to orient the battery, I'll agree, since earlier and later cars have the battery oriented parallel to the front/rear direction, not perpendicular. It totally gets in the way of doing maintenance like changing spark plugs, for instance.
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| kingkarmann wrote: |
| Ultimately the winner of this Ghia is probably going to discover an issue or two that did not come up during the sale. My guess it's not going to be a big deal. I hope it sells well! |
If you buy a old VW, not matter what the condition, and DON'T find any issues that would be a miracle. Even the few super nice, "all original" cars I've owned had some sort of issue or something I wanted to immediately fix or correct.
To me, that's part of the appeal... I want something to do on it. :)
They key is you want to have enough information beforehand that it's something that's either minor or doesn't kill your excitement about getting the car. Engine blows up when the seller said it was perfect? This is a problem and gets into misrepresentation. Horn stops working the next day when seller said everything works? Big deal... fix it. |
I'm wondering whether anyone wants to buy a Ghia that is in PERFECT condition. Two questions: Are there any? And where's the fun in that?
As an aside: I think 90% of Sambanista bought Ghias that had many more issues than they expected. My own $10,000 estimate for the restoration of my Ghia blew out by 300%, costing 4 times as much as I had anticipated. And that does not count the many hours I spent fixing things myself.
But man, what a ride! The work I did gave me as much pleasure as driving a Ghia that I had put together with my own two hands. With a little help from my friends.
Would I buy a PERFECT Ghia? Not in this lifetime.
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| kingkarmann wrote: |
| Ultimately the winner of this Ghia is probably going to discover an issue or two that did not come up during the sale. My guess it's not going to be a big deal. I hope it sells well! |
If you buy a old VW, not matter what the condition, and DON'T find any issues that would be a miracle. Even the few super nice, "all original" cars I've owned had some sort of issue or something I wanted to immediately fix or correct.
To me, that's part of the appeal... I want something to do on it.
They key is you want to have enough information beforehand that it's something that's either minor or doesn't kill your excitement about getting the car. Engine blows up when the seller said it was perfect? This is a problem and gets into misrepresentation. Horn stops working the next day when seller said everything works? Big deal... fix it. |
I'm wondering whether anyone wants to buy a Ghia that is in PERFECT condition. Two questions: Are there any? And where's the fun in that?
As an aside: I think 90% of Sambanista bought Ghias that had many more issues than they expected. My own $10,000 estimate for the restoration of my Ghia blew out by 300%, costing 4 times as much as I had anticipated. And that does not count the many hours I spent fixing things myself.
But man, what a ride! The work I did gave me as much pleasure as driving a Ghia that I had put together with my own two hands. With a little help from my friends.
Would I buy a PERFECT Ghia? Not in this lifetime. |
I think I wanted a perfect Ghia.
But then what would I have done for aggravation?
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Loren
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004
Posts: 1701
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| I don't think it's about buying a perfect Ghia, but about buying a Ghia that is honestly represented. |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Loren wrote: |
| I don't think it's about buying a perfect Ghia, but about buying a Ghia that is honestly represented. |
That would have been a pleasant experience.
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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67 Florida Deluxe
Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 7987
Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| EverettB wrote: |
If you buy a old VW, not matter what the condition, and DON'T find any issues that would be a miracle. Even the few super nice, "all original" cars I've owned had some sort of issue or something I wanted to immediately fix or correct.
To me, that's part of the appeal... I want something to do on it.
They key is you want to have enough information beforehand that it's something that's either minor or doesn't kill your excitement about getting the car. Engine blows up when the seller said it was perfect? This is a problem and gets into misrepresentation. Horn stops working the next day when seller said everything works? Big deal... fix it. |
BINGO! This represents my thoughts exactly. I want to deal with an honest seller and I don't mind (I actually enjoy futzing with little things to get it to my idea of perfect.) Recently, well last 7 months, I bought two cars that turned out to be great finds. But I must have talked to the owners for at least an hour and a half and had a stable full of high def, high quality photos. At the end of the day, my "gut meter" registered in the positive. The cars were well represented, despite a few minor issues that I have enjoyed fixing. I feel lost with a car that doesn't need anything fixed!
_________________
-Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3036
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
If you buy a old VW, not matter what the condition, and DON'T find any issues that would be a miracle. Even the few super nice, "all original" cars I've owned had some sort of issue or something I wanted to immediately fix or correct.
To me, that's part of the appeal... I want something to do on it.
They key is you want to have enough information beforehand that it's something that's either minor or doesn't kill your excitement about getting the car. Engine blows up when the seller said it was perfect? This is a problem and gets into misrepresentation. Horn stops working the next day when seller said everything works? Big deal... fix it. |
BINGO! This represents my thoughts exactly. I want to deal with an honest seller and I don't mind (I actually enjoy futzing with little things to get it to my idea of perfect.) Recently, well last 7 months, I bought two cars that turned out to be great finds. But I must have talked to the owners for at least an hour and a half and had a stable full of high def, high quality photos. At the end of the day, my "gut meter" registered in the positive. The cars were well represented, despite a few minor issues that I have enjoyed fixing. I feel lost with a car that doesn't need anything fixed! |
I feel the same as well. I've owned many antique and vintage cars over the last 45 years. I enjoy working on them and the sense of pride that goes along with it. Most sellers are honest and will share all important information about the condition of the car. It's unfortunate however when unscrupulous people totally misrepresent a vehicle for the sake of greed.
There's a big difference between finding unexpected issues, even if major, and buying a car that needs tens of thousands of dollars worth of work that is hidden and that the PO was fully aware of, or caused by his own ineptness. I've never had a bad buying experience until I bought my Ghia last year. It's not about the car, it's about the seller. There is more I could have done to protect myself so I take responsibility for poor judgment in this case, but that doesn't excuse the greedy PO. I consider myself a good judge of character and I feel if it can happen to me, it could happen to most anybody.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Marcdeb wrote: |
| It's not about the car, it's about the seller. I consider myself a good judge of character and I feel if it can happen to me, it could happen to most anybody. |
Damn right this is so true. It happened to me when I bought a 70 Ghia coupe years ago. I thought that with this purchase which was on eBay and paid with PayPal that I covered all my bases. I carefully wrote out what the seller had promised and guaranteed.
It was all a lie, and eBay's or PayPal's guarantee was also worthless.
_________________
----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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oaktrees1845
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2020
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Marcdeb wrote: |
| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
If you buy a old VW, not matter what the condition, and DON'T find any issues that would be a miracle. Even the few super nice, "all original" cars I've owned had some sort of issue or something I wanted to immediately fix or correct.
To me, that's part of the appeal... I want something to do on it.
They key is you want to have enough information beforehand that it's something that's either minor or doesn't kill your excitement about getting the car. Engine blows up when the seller said it was perfect? This is a problem and gets into misrepresentation. Horn stops working the next day when seller said everything works? Big deal... fix it. |
BINGO! This represents my thoughts exactly. I want to deal with an honest seller and I don't mind (I actually enjoy futzing with little things to get it to my idea of perfect.) Recently, well last 7 months, I bought two cars that turned out to be great finds. But I must have talked to the owners for at least an hour and a half and had a stable full of high def, high quality photos. At the end of the day, my "gut meter" registered in the positive. The cars were well represented, despite a few minor issues that I have enjoyed fixing. I feel lost with a car that doesn't need anything fixed! |
I feel the same as well. I've owned many antique and vintage cars over the last 45 years. I enjoy working on them and the sense of pride that goes along with it. Most sellers are honest and will share all important information about the condition of the car. It's unfortunate however when unscrupulous people totally misrepresent a vehicle for the sake of greed.
There's a big difference between finding unexpected issues, even if major, and buying a car that needs tens of thousands of dollars worth of work that is hidden and that the PO was fully aware of, or caused by his own ineptness. I've never had a bad buying experience until I bought my Ghia last year. It's not about the car, it's about the seller. There is more I could have done to protect myself so I take responsibility for poor judgment in this case, but that doesn't excuse the greedy PO. I consider myself a good judge of character and I feel if it can happen to me, it could happen to most anybody. |
I conduct due diligence as part of my profession. Sometimes you can gather all the data and still have a negative outcome. An uncertain future and randomness conspire to alter desired outcomes. Only in hindsight (hindsight bias) do certain paths become clear or a fictional story become plausible.
One way to improve the probability of outcomes is to develop a robust decision-making process. The advantages of this are numerous but here are a few:
1. The quality of the decision can be judged by the process instead of the outcome (major error most people make in life and analysis.)
2. The process can be adjusted to improve outcomes
3. This structured thinking is based on a robust method that changed human history- the scientific method
So, to maximize the probability of a positive outcome when making a purchase, one might take a number of steps but a core step would be a robust due diligence effort.
Some things to consider:
- Become knowledgeable of the car make/model etc. under consideration
- Visit the car in person
o Maybe spend an entire day with the car, the owner, and other parties
o Give the car a drive
o Put it up on a lift
- Hire a trusted 3rd party expert/consultant to assist
o Have a report drawn up/ document the thoughts in detail
o Consider sharing this report with the seller
o I have a great sample report that was written by a 3rd party for the buyer of a 1964 356 Porsche Reutters Cabriolet if anyone is interested. It accurately covers things such as the interior, exterior, paperwork, engine work, and reputations of those involved. (“and the people representing it are some of the best in the business,” in case you were wondering.)
- Review all documentation, noting any discrepancies or missing information
o Spend, oh I don’t know, 2+ hours reviewing every document on hand. Maybe review them twice over with your hired consultant. To make sure you don’t miss any detail.
- Investigate the reputation of the seller
o Call around- talk to people. My experience is people love to talk.
- Speak to people who have worked on the car
o If invoices are presented one can easily clarify any issues or concerns with the people who conducted the work.
Even with a robust process and an extensive due diligence effort, outcomes long after a purchase is complete can be negative- especially with classic cars. Always review your process for improvement. Most of all, don’t immediately look to lay results at the feet of external forces.
Bad sellers do exist but so do bad buyers. Maybe for my next installment I will cover what a seller should do to protect themselves from a bad buyer. |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4114
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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The 67 just sold for $35k. Not to bad for a jacked up Ghia
IMO the seller GWPeterson is an righteous dude! (for you Ferris Bueller or Dazed & Confused fans)
He has or will at his expense correct the few issues that were pointed out. Never once did he attempt to excuse of gloss over any issue. I think it's why is ultimately sold so well.
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| kingkarmann wrote: |
The 67 just sold for $35k. Not to bad for a jacked up Ghia
IMO the seller GWPeterson is an righteous dude! (for you Ferris Bueller or Dazed & Confused fans)
He has or will at his expense correct the few issues that were pointed out. Never once did he attempt to excuse of gloss over any issue. I think it's why is ultimately sold so well. |
Remember when people used to say “one of these days collectors are going to start appreciating these cars and the values are going to go up” I think those days are here at least for 71 and earlier convertibles. Nice ones, not the host of turds you see n the Samba classifieds, are starting to consistently get strong money. Maybe not enough to start restoring for profit, but getting closer.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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What r u gonna do kingKarmann? Sell or hold? Jk, I’ve seen your car in person a few years back I think at pataskala? (sp?),before I had mine, and it’s top notch. Straight as an arrow. Well worth BAT prices.
But the price to enter may start going up just as fast, if you don’t own one yet...
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia |
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