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CelestysWesty Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2020 Posts: 95 Location: FL
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:02 am Post subject: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Hi Samba folks-
I know there are dozens Of posts about this, and I’ve been scanning through them all, but there’s still just so much information and I really need the basics.
I’ve got stock 14” tires , P185/75R14/89S, and looking to switch to 16”. I live in Miami, there are zero hills, and the van probably won’t see anything much of an incline or snow for the foreseeable future. We do however, get a lot of water. And gaining an inch could be a good thing.
Looking for a smooth ride for the the family as we cruise down to the keys or Everglades and also want to look good. ( I did say I was in Miami, right?)
I’m thinking something like 215/65/16, but WHICH ones is the question?
Michelin defender? Yokohama geolander? Sumitomo HTR?
Is the Hydroedge a good option for my wet conditions?
Will I need spacers?
Btw, this is a 2.1, 2wd vehicle. Pardon the simplicity of my inquiry, but hadn’t really seen anything that reflected my situation and hoping to be enlightened. Thanks in advance! _________________ '86 Westy (Canadian model)
Now she lives in Miami, teaching her about Sunshine.
Trying to remedy the rust of her past.
Last edited by CelestysWesty on Tue May 19, 2020 5:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4491 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Obviously you'll need new wheels. I chose the Mercedes CLK and Achilles Multivan 205/65R-16s, about an inch taller than stock. Very reasonable price from tires-easy.com.
New tire in the center flanked by an old stocker on the left and a stock-size Nexen replacement purchased in Miami when one of the old stockers blew out on I-95 in rush hour while visiting my cousin.
Regarding "simple," buy steel wheels specifically to fit a Vanagon. Any Merc wheel will require at least drilling the lug holes to 37/64" (which is all these CLKs needed) and many of the wheels will require longer lug bolts and reboring the centerhole. _________________ '87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic
Last edited by campism on Tue May 19, 2020 5:23 am; edited 4 times in total |
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mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2795 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Nokian Entyre 2.0 is a common option and a tire I have been very happy with.
And yes, wheels. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual
Last edited by mikemtnbike on Tue May 19, 2020 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1884 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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will you need new wheels...??
You can not put a 16" tire on a 14" rim.
Yes you will new wheels if you want to go to 16" tires.
Changing to a 16" wheel tire package, can still keep the stock diameter, 195/65/16 will do just that.
215/65/16 will change lower your RPMs at all speeds, slower off the line.
Assuming you have a 2.1 stock motor, you will need to determine if this is acceptable.
You can also get a 14" tire, with a larger diameter than stock, which will raise the van slightly, and lower the rpm.
Start reading the sticky on tires, and rims, a lot of info there for you.
And read up on load specs too, you want a proper load rated tire. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15143 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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wheels have only a little to do with how tall your tires are..
since you stated you get alot of rain and looking for an extra inch of height.
i would NOT go with a wider tire as that will increase the hydroplaning aspect.
tall and skinny.. unless you want to drive on sand.. then you want wide.
so there is no perfect 'simple' choice
you need to make an educated decision that will effect your wallet and your driving safety.
get a nice tall 14" tire either the RA18 or a 27x8.5 depending on if you want traction in mud/sand (27x8.5) or reliable highway anti hydro planing(RA18)
other options will incure the costs of new wheels and lugnuts. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17109 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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I needed tires just before our maiden voyage. The simplest solution was to buy 16 inch rims direct from Go Westy. They bolted right on with the included hardware. No spacers required and the sliding door clears the r/r tire.
I’m sporting 215/55/16 Conti Contacts
I did add studs to the front from Christopher at T3 a few years later. _________________ ☮️ |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Simple way without modifications...buy a Syncro 16. That's what I did. 🤗 _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7462 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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I read "keep it simple".
Go to one of our vendors who've done the homework for you. I'll choose VanCafe in this example:
https://www.vancafe.com/Vanagon-Wheels-Tires-s/4005.htm
I've always liked the Carat Alloy, black with silver face, it looks sweet...
https://www.vancafe.com/16Carrot-B-p/16carrot-b.htm
The Mefro also is a good choice, steel wheel look and functional...
https://www.vancafe.com/Vanagon-Wheels-Tires-16STEEL-p/16steel.htm
As for tires, I like Nokians, the WRC4s are quiet and All Weather, incl. winter)...
https://www.vancafe.com/product-p/nt430912.htm
But the Nokians being All Weather (4 season, not 3 season All Season) and will likely wear fast in FLA and you won't need the siping so the Michelin wins...
https://www.vancafe.com/Vanagon-Wheels-Tires-Agilis-p/agilis.htm
Place order, install, win.
Enjoy. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
Last edited by jimf909 on Tue May 19, 2020 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7462 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Steve M. wrote: |
Simple way without modifications...buy a Syncro 16. That's what I did. 🤗 |
This is another form of simple. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 982
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Simple inexpensive, look for a steel wheel from a Passat or Tiguan in a 16" these I believe will clear the hub bore, important thing is offset and I don't recall what the numbers were but 33-37 is a comfortable safe zone for the van- |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16501 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Eric_Taylor Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2011 Posts: 291 Location: Bend, Oregon
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Good advice for simple! I agree on the mountains of information on tires/wheels. I also wanted simple. It was wayyyyyyyyy to hard to make a choice based on all the opinions that are out there. Personally, I looked for what I assessed as the most widely used option, which I think is the go westy wheel set (van cafe sells them too and calls them the euro look) and the defenders. GW has a whole article on the defenders, the rating, etc. and why after so many miles and customers that they just work.
Simple. There may be better choices, but there are absolutely a lot worse and after so many people using them with reasonably limited complaints, I think it's a solid choice. That's my two cents and i'm happy with my choice. |
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Mark Lewalski Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2010 Posts: 406 Location: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa Bay)
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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For 16" CLK wheels, try Tomasz. I know him and he's a good guy...
He's in the Tampa Bay area and will ship (or possibly meet you somewhere, just talk to him)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2376185
He can also tell you his tire choice for Florida and elsewhere as he has done extensive, cross country travelling.
I have 16" CLKs with General Grabber AT2s mounted and in generally flat Florida, I've had no issues. '87, 2.1, Auto, poptop Weekender. A tin top would be even less weight to get up to speed.
Spacers are a must and will add to the overall cost but do it right. I went to http://t3technique.com/ as many, many others have done in the past. He won't steer you wrong.
Mark _________________ '89 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg "Bluestar" (given to and owned by my son now)
'87 Vanagon Weekender
'74 Thing |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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dkoesyncro wrote: |
Simple inexpensive, look for a steel wheel from a Passat or Tiguan in a 16" these I believe will clear the hub bore, important thing is offset and I don't recall what the numbers were but 33-37 is a comfortable safe zone for the van- |
The hub has to be bored out. Offset on the Tiguans is 33 which is nice. Lug nuts/bolts have to change due to seat shape.
I have two sets. Costs me about $80 for a set, maybe another $60 to bore them out, and another $70 for the nuts/bolts. All in for about $210 CAD. |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7753 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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I have a feeling the OP has confused "tire" size for "wheel" size...difficult to parse from the original post...??? <shrug>
Simplest route is a larger diameter tire for your 14" rims, which means you're only buying tires but they'll be a taller
"profile" (the second number) which is not currently "the fashion" - see pic (not Vanagon-specific, but you get the idea):
If you KNOW you want bigger rims, you'll have a wider variety of good tires to choose from (most with a more fashionable
lower profile) but you'll also add roughly another $300 to $600 for the new rims, probably another $100 to $250 for new
hardware and/or spacers... AND... you'll still need about $400 worth of new tires before you're rolling...
Long story short: please clarify your question?
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3431 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7462 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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These are the 16" Mercedes wheels that fit with no mods. The steel wheels are an easy buy at the M-B dealer, the CLKs are rarely simple, if simple avoids CL, samba classifieds, etc.
Christopher Schimke wrote: |
I assume we are talking about a 2wd here? If so, all Audi and VW wheels will require modifications (centerbore enlarged) and almost all will require spacers and lugs, so that pretty much eliminates all of them from your want of unmodified wheels.
There are only two 16" Mercedes wheels that I am aware of that can potentially be installed without spacers and/or longer studs.
One is part # 2034000302 and/or 2084000102 (same wheel, different part number) and is a 16x7 ET37 steel wheel from a '98-'05 C240 or C320 and a '98-'03 CLK320. No mods required to the wheels, just the use of small ball seat lugs.
The other wheel is the forged alloy wheel from the '98-'01 CLK320, part number 2084010002. This is a 16x7 ET37 wheel. What makes this particular alloy wheel different from the other 16x7 ET37 Mercedes alloy wheels is that the thickness of the wheel through the lug hole is very thin compared to the other Mercedes alloy wheels. This particular wheel is about 4mm thick whereas the others are between 23mm and 25mm thick (which forces the use of longer wheel studs). This thin cross section allows you to keep the stock rear studs. If you wanted to use some of the other 16x7 ET37 wheels, you can still install them without spacers, but you would have to change the rear wheel studs to longer versions. All of the Mercedes alloy wheels will require the lug holes to be drilled to 37/64" and will require small ball seat lugs.
For all of the Mercedes 16x7 ET37 alloy wheels, if spacers are not used, the Mercedes center caps will not fit, but I do have cap solutions for them. Also, if spacers are not used, you must use 205 or narrower tires. 215 width tires rarely fit without rubbing and there is no way that 225s fit without the use of spacers. |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7367254#7367254 _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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OP--Did you get an answer to your question? I noticed that you didn't respond to any of the posts.
I did exactly what you want and it turned out not to be simple, but not very complex either. Bought the Merc allow wheels and drilled them. Christopher Shimke at T3 Technique is the guy to go to for advice. You will need some spacers and bolts.studs which any garage should be able to handle.
The real problem is the tire. I agree with Danfromsyr about keeping your tire skinny. I went with all weather Nokian 205 R65 which is about 5% larger in circumference, Thus speedo reads about 3 mph low at 60 mph. However, I hate the tire. Ride is much more of a truck ride than my old 14's. I spent much time on this site and got tons of conflicting advice. Problem was I couldn't find a narrower tire than 205 by myself. After the purchase a poster told me of a 175 source and I wish I had done that. I kept repeating I wanted a ride just like you stated and no one offered advice on that. Keep pressing people. Unfortunately many of the T3 owners go camping and want the off road capability which neither you nor I do.
But the real non simple hooker is that 205's do not fit in the clamshell. I was able to modify the clamshell with cut off grinder and bolts, but a pain. I could send photos of my mod which was far simpler than many have done, but the real thing here is you don't need a wider tire and so don't get one.
Duncan |
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CelestysWesty Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2020 Posts: 95 Location: FL
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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Wellington wrote: |
will you need new wheels...??
You can not put a 16" tire on a 14" rim.
Yes you will new wheels if you want to go to 16" tires.
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Rookie mistake.
I’m new to cars in general. Deleted that original question so as not to seem like a total idiot, and perhaps confused some commenters in the process.
Appreciate your advice. I’m processing everyone’s feedback and going to do a bit more research before making naïve comments.
Thanks again. _________________ '86 Westy (Canadian model)
Now she lives in Miami, teaching her about Sunshine.
Trying to remedy the rust of her past. |
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CelestysWesty Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2020 Posts: 95 Location: FL
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Switch to 16” tires, I want to keep it simple |
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campism wrote: |
Obviously you'll need new wheels. I chose the Mercedes CLK and Achilles Multivan 205/65R-16s, about an inch taller than stock. Very reasonable price from tires-easy.com. |
Good tip, adding to my spreadsheet on this...
campism wrote: |
Regarding "simple," buy steel wheels specifically to fit a Vanagon. Any Merc wheel will require at least drilling the lug holes to 37/64" (which is all these CLKs needed) and many of the wheels will require longer lug bolts and reboring the centerhole. |
Got any good videos you can share on the reboring?
I’m wondering if this is something I can figure out on my own with my own tools. _________________ '86 Westy (Canadian model)
Now she lives in Miami, teaching her about Sunshine.
Trying to remedy the rust of her past. |
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