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mackaymanx
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 479
Location: Australia
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mackaymanx
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 479
Location: Australia
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1988Dokaguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2019
Posts: 15
Location: Maryland
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 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:08 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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Just installed mine from T3 Technique. Here's what it did for my 5 speed (2WD Doka). Before and after pics. It moved all the shifting closer to me and tightened it up. I know longer have to lean forward to shift or mess up the station/settings on the radio with my knuckle when going into 2nd and 4th.
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chompy
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Joined: August 12, 2014
Posts: 400
Location: Cascade Locks
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:12 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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I think this is the only mod to that shifter to really make it perfect:
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'81 Westfalia Subaru EJ22
Manual Transmission |
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16CVs 
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4026
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:30 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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That's just creepy !
Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:04 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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Not as creepy as the sailboat tiller handle made by my neighbor the wood carver. Imagine maintaining a firm grip on a very large wooden member. It was pretty weird. He was a pretty weird guy. His wife also liked to walk around the yard topless. West Seattle was an odd place back in the '80's
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17153
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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Thanks for the documentation. So others know, to a point you can adjust the stock shift lever position backwards or forwards, by lengthening or shortening the rod under the van at the splines. Sliding the splines out moves the shift lever back. Pushing the splines in shifts the shift rod towards the dashboard. There is a point though where it will affect the reverse lockout. The manual has you set it centered in the shifter box, but its not the law.
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:59 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Looking stock is aplus for me. |
Same here. I'm a square-headlights guy too.
I drove a Big Shot van last week and was totally impressed, but I didn't like the bulky knobby appearance.
Besides, a Syncro should be shifted with "two fingers".
Big Shot looks like a big crowbar to tear the transmission off the mounts.
I know, appearance of a control lever is a minor detail.
It seems like a spacer under the boot might be good enough?
I'd like to try one sometime if anyone in Seattle has one....
With luck, maybe I'll cross paths with T3Technique out in the woods....
Which could be more likely than Stacy's scheme. 
T3Technique: (711 shifter offers) Much shorter lever throw (roughly 44% shorter than stock)
1988dokaguy's pic suggests a longer throw.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3048
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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A longer 2-3 but a shorter 4-5. That's odd. Why wouldn't it be the same?
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:22 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| Sodo wrote: |
T3Technique: (711 shifter offers) Much shorter lever throw (roughly 44% shorter than stock)
1988dokaguy's pic suggests a longer throw. |
| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
| A longer 2-3 but a shorter 4-5. That's odd. Why wouldn't it be the same? |
I could be wrong, but i think it's partly the way it's being measured (at an angle, not horizontally as it should be). It's not that way on mine (also a 5 speed, like 1988Dokaguy has).
Also, I think 1988Dokaguy has a quick shift kit installed with his stock shifter when he took those "before" photos.
Measured completely horizontally (with a yardstick placed on the shifter housing and resting against the dash to give a consistent point to measure from), mine is at a 102mm (4") throw in both the 2/3 stroke as well as the 4/5 stroke.
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T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3048
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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I never knew I wanted 4" that much.
Ordered.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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flomulgator
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2013
Posts: 950
Location: Leavenworth, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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My biggest challenges have been with the guide rails on the stock shifter. I replaced everything in the stock shifter with new parts and it still sits low, so that the dog ear tabs easily fall below the shifter box guide, particularily the lockout. One of the reasons is the seemingly soft lockout spring on the stock setup, it's just very easy to push down the spring when in the 1/2 area and end up in the R/L area. Does this shifter have a stiffer lockout spring? Is the dog ear connection bar at the same height as the stock shifter?
One concern I have is about center-bias...how does it achieve that? The stock shifter has a right-bias because that's how the transmission shift fork and internal spring work, it pushes all the way "out" of the trans in neutral which shoves the sifter off to the right. Is there an internal transmission effect that results from this center-bias?
I am very intrigued though, because I've upgraded and replaced everything in my syncro's shifting system and the shifting is still fundamentally hot garbage compared to any other manual trans I've ever driven.
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| flomulgator wrote: |
I am very intrigued though, because I've upgraded and replaced everything in my syncro's shifting system and the shifting is still fundamentally hot garbage compared to any other manual trans I've ever driven. |
What are you comparing your syncro to? It's not gonna be like anything else due to 10+' of shifter linkage. There's no getting around that. |
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flomulgator
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2013
Posts: 950
Location: Leavenworth, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| What are you comparing your syncro to? |
Just Miatas and gated-shifter Ferraris? 
I actually need to drive someone else's well-sorted syncro to see how good it can be to baseline my driving experience, as there plenty of things that could still be wrong with linkage/box/shifter adjustments or transmission internals.
And to be fair, a Jeep CJ-7 I've mudded with was about as sloppy shifting and an '06 F-550 17,000lb diesel work truck was about as clunky shifting. That thing was about as difficult getting it from Low to First while moving as our vans are.
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| flomulgator wrote: |
| Does this shifter have a stiffer lockout spring? Is the dog ear connection bar at the same height as the stock shifter? |
Yes, you reuse your existing spring, but on the 711 shifter, it is compressed quite a bit more than on the stock shifter so it's actually a little stiffer feeling.
Yes, theoretically, the shifter tabs would sit in the same position as stock. Obviously there are minor machining variances and such to account for so it could be ever-so-slightly different. One thing that is very different about the 711 shifter is that the ball/socket is a very tight tolerant and there isn't that little plastic tower that the spring sits on with the stock plastic ball/socket arrangement. This all leads up to much more precise location of the shifter tabs. So while theoretically the the shifter tabs would be in the same position, the more precise nature of the 711 shifter may actually make it so your shifter tabs are in the correct location instead of dropped down like you have now.
| flomulgator wrote: |
| One concern I have is about center-bias...how does it achieve that? The stock shifter has a right-bias because that's how the transmission shift fork and internal spring work, it pushes all the way "out" of the trans in neutral which shoves the sifter off to the right. Is there an internal transmission effect that results from this center-bias? |
Yes, the right side bias in the stock system comes from inside the gearbox. However, the right side bias is not that strong. If you look at the 711 shifter housing, you will see a spring that is mounted to the housing and the spring arms that reach out to a pin that goes all the way through the shift lever. It's this spring that aligns the 711 shifter in the center bias position.
On a 2wd 4 speed and a SYncro gearbox, you need to remove the reverse switch housing on the gearbox and remove the "top hat" spacer. It's a super simple operation that only takes minutes to do. The reason for this is to reduce the spring pressure on the system so that the lever going into reverse and/or G-gear (for the Syncro) isn't too stiff.
| flomulgator wrote: |
I am very intrigued though, because I've upgraded and replaced everything in my syncro's shifting system and the shifting is still fundamentally hot garbage compared to any other manual trans I've ever driven.
| Quote: |
| What are you comparing your syncro to? |
Just Miatas and gated-shifter Ferraris?
I actually need to drive someone else's well-sorted syncro to see how good it can be to baseline my driving experience, as there plenty of things that could still be wrong with linkage/box/shifter adjustments or transmission internals.
And to be fair, a Jeep CJ-7 I've mudded with was about as sloppy shifting and an '06 F-550 17,000lb diesel work truck was about as clunky shifting. That thing was about as difficult getting it from Low to First while moving as our vans are. |
Any gearbox that uses linkage to translate the shift lever movement to an actual gear change has the potential to have slop and/or a vague feel to the shifter. Some linkage systems are better than others, but any play in the system translates to increased movement of the shift lever to affect a gear change.
The Miata has a gearbox that has no linkage between the shift lever and the box. The shift lever is directly connected to the gear change mechanism inside the gearbox. A Vanagon shifter will never feel quite that precise and direct, but I can tell you that when all of the joints, connections, and gizmos in a Vanagon linkage system are in top order, the 711 shifter comes as close to the feel of a direct lever as I have ever felt in a Vanagon. It truly is a radical change in shifting feel and accuracy compared to a stock shifter assembly.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3048
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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My e39 540i has one of the best linkage shifters I've ever driven. I think the trans itself plays a huge part of that. I have driven dozens of e30s and most are pretty terrible, but you'll find a few that shift wonderfully like my e39. The e30s getrag 260 is notoriously notchy, super reliable though. The difference with e30s is a the trans has had an incredibly gentle life. Nothing will compare to my former rx8 though. Man that had a slick transmission and gear shifter. Dropped right into the trans. Easiest way to fill the trans was remove the shifter!
With the vanagon, I am just really tired of having to leave my seat to shift to 3rd. Why VW, why?
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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jimf909
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Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7469
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| Not as creepy as the sailboat tiller handle made by my neighbor the wood carver. Imagine maintaining a firm grip on a very large wooden member. It was pretty weird. He was a pretty weird guy. His wife also liked to walk around the yard topless. West Seattle was an odd place back in the '80's |
Did you live next to this guy at 44th an Brandon? I love this house a block away from the West Seattle Nursery. There are still a few crazies left in WS.
https://www.westsideseattle.com/robinson-papers/20...-car-crash
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| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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flomulgator
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2013
Posts: 950
Location: Leavenworth, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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Chris,
Thank you very much for answering my questions in detail!
And this is getting hilariously off-topic, but:
A) I also owned an RX-8 and agree that the shifter was the stuff of dreams, and
B) now I have a new local landmark to check out!
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She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro! |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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Ha, that sounds about right. The guy was a very skilled luthier, so I wonder if Ed (from Czech/BC) knows him. I can't remember the address, but I lived a couple blocks off of California, on 44th or 45th.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Gpeck96
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: Re: 025 Motorsport 711 Shifter Available at T3 technique... |
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| Any more updates or testimonials? I am seriously considering this upgrade since obtaining a Big Shot from RSFab is questionable... |
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