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Franklinstower Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 12:38 pm Post subject: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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I am in the finishing steps of the pop top refurbish and I bought all new SS hardware from Belmetric. I don't particularly like using a 100% Silicone sealants mainly due to the fact that nothing removes it. I have used a butyl tape before on my sail boat with mixed results. The butyl tape i have used might not have been true butyl. It didn't stretch out and eventually somewhat hardened over the years. I just pulled it out and it is not very pliable anymore after about 5 years.
Are there any updated go-to sealants for sealing the bolts? Like Dico flow seal, a better butyl tape, a non-silicone sealant, Maybe Silkaflex 221?
I am editing this to also address the skylight hinges - I suppose using a silicone sealant is more suitable on the skylight itself.
Thanks,
Paul _________________ '89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
Last edited by Franklinstower on Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7400 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants |
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I think sikkaflex 221 is a go to nowadays. purplepeopleeater (Mike Shaffer at VanLab) used it when installing the windows in my high-top (maybe also for sealing the high-top seam) and I recently researched it when installing solar panels and it consistently came up as a go-to sealant and adhesive for rv related roofing and sealing projects. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Franklinstower Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: PNW
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:04 am Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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I am bumping this and added an edit to the title to discuss the skylight hinge and sealant.
I just received my new SS Hinges from GoWesty - I like the idea of the stainless because my old hinges actual rusted to the point the hinge would not open and thus I cracked the pop top at the hinge mount location from the frozen hinge.
So here is the new SS hinges - notice anything odd about the hinge?
a mild steel hinge bolt. So basically you got a nice SS hinge with a steel hinge pin that is going to rust. No Bueno Go-Westy! _________________ '89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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Can't speak to GoWesty's intention, but Stainless on Stainless can Gall with movement/rotation as I'm sure you're aware of. Maybe they were trying to avoid that issue with the steel pin.
You could always e-mail them to be sure....
Can you easily cut the bolt out and add your own hardware if so inclined?
Or, a bronze bushing with a stainless pin or bolt to fit... although at THAT point you really are reinventing the wheel for that hinge assembly...
Anyway, what grade of Stainless is the Hinge, Series 304, 316?, just wondering _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Franklinstower Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: PNW
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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They don't mention the type of Stainless used, it is non-magnetic though.
As far as galling or rusting - I think the pin would rust way before the galling occurred because for galling, you usually need a tight fit of the dissimilar metals correct? the hinge pin is pretty loose in the stamped stainless hinge body.
quote from Go-Westy:
We are proud to offer our stainless steel replacement hinges for your skylight, made right here in the USA. Look ma, no rust! You will need two hinges per vehicle, and these are retailed individually. Cheers! _________________ '89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6235 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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I used thin rubber washers to make the seal. Never leaked. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3260 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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I sealed the skylight fasteners and all the other pop top fasteners with "Dum Dum" and it worked fine - - no leaks at all.
I will add, however, that I was very careful to roll out a small amount of dumdum into a thin sausage form for each fastener, wrapped it around the base of the fastener, and made sure that there was no gap in the dumdum sausage before tightening each fastener. I tested with the garden hose and then real-world use.
These days, this product goes by many names and 3M calls their version "Strip Caulk":
https://www.3mcanada.ca/3M/en_CA/company-ca/all-3m...amp;rt=rud _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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Franklinstower wrote: |
They don't mention the type of Stainless used, it is non-magnetic though.
As far as galling or rusting - I think the pin would rust way before the galling occurred because for galling, you usually need a tight fit of the dissimilar metals correct? the hinge pin is pretty loose in the stamped stainless hinge body.
quote from Go-Westy:
We are proud to offer our stainless steel replacement hinges for your skylight, made right here in the USA. Look ma, no rust! You will need two hinges per vehicle, and these are retailed individually. Cheers! |
I'm talking about Stainless Steel rubbing on Stainless Steel. Some Series are worse for it than others. Not Steel or non steel running on Stainless. Since the Hinge is Non-Magnetic, it's probably a 300 series type of some kind. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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I ordered a set of these at one point and sent them back. IMHO the quality was very poor. The shape was only a close approximation of the original hinges. The pivots were much looser than the 30 year old Westfalia hinges. In the end I powder coated a set, slightly enlarged the bore in the smaller section and reassembled using a tee shaped bushing on each end and a nice stainless button head bolt and nylow nut.
No more rattle! _________________ Schau in das Buch |
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Timwhy Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 3995 Location: Maine
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vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3424 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:15 am Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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Timwhy wrote: |
Making a small snake of this stuff wrapped around a bolt will seal water from entering thru.:
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I uses this per Tim's suggestion and finally I am no longer fighting with leaks. As mentioned by Howesight, I was super careful with the application.
In case that is a dead link some day it is
1 lb. Plug Duct Seal Compound by Gardner Bender. And enough to do 50 Westies is $2.98! _________________ John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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dgbeatty wrote: |
I ordered a set of these at one point and sent them back. IMHO the quality was very poor. The shape was only a close approximation of the original hinges. The pivots were much looser than the 30 year old Westfalia hinges. In the end I powder coated a set, slightly enlarged the bore in the smaller section and reassembled using a tee shaped bushing on each end and a nice stainless button head bolt and nylow nut.
No more rattle! |
nice!- any pictures? _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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kourt Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013 Posts: 1922 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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This thread reminds me of all the reasons I stopped replacing my Westy skylight.
When I bought my Westy in 2013 the skylight was a baked, cracked mess.
I replaced all the hardware and the skylight itself. Totally fresh and nice. I used rubber gaskets to seal the thru-fasteners.
About a year later, after a few beach trips, the lens struts were rusted and the skylight rattled a lot. I replaced it all again. Totally fresh and nice.
About a year after that I replaced it all again because it was rusty and rattling again. Totally fresh and nice.
By the the fourth time of replacement I decided the skylight design was junk and did this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8796997#8796997
Now I have a powered fan up there with a standardized RV skylight that doesn't rattle and is made of modern, non corrosive materials. No rattles and no rust.
kourt |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3548 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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kourt wrote: |
This thread reminds me of all the reasons I stopped replacing my Westy skylight.
When I bought my Westy in 2013 the skylight was a baked, cracked mess.
I replaced all the hardware and the skylight itself. Totally fresh and nice. I used rubber gaskets to seal the thru-fasteners.
About a year later, after a few beach trips, the lens struts were rusted and the skylight rattled a lot. I replaced it all again. Totally fresh and nice.
About a year after that I replaced it all again because it was rusty and rattling again. Totally fresh and nice.
By the the fourth time of replacement I decided the skylight design was junk and did this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8796997#8796997
Now I have a powered fan up there with a standardized RV skylight that doesn't rattle and is made of modern, non corrosive materials. No rattles and no rust.
kourt |
I had forgotten all the trouble you went to , BUT, it sure seems worth it. I'd go the distance for that too if I had a Westy, just for the Roof Venting of Hot Air, let alone cooking heat and odors.... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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kourt Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013 Posts: 1922 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: Re: pop top bolt sealants and skylight hinge |
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It really paid off this weekend at the beach. I had planned to make some biscuits and gravy on the outside grill, but then it started to rain. We had to shutter ourselves inside the van, and it was about 80 degrees outside. I started to cook and opened the MaxxFan, turned the fan on, and watched the heat and smell of food get carried up and out of the van while we sat in relative comfort in the van.
I totally get the purists who want to keep the stock look, but man that old skylight sucked, and this powered vent skylight rocks.
kourt |
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