Diesel AAZ injectors and pump (+ broken crankshaft)?

[drewbie49]

So,
I recently had what I believed would be an upgrade to my AAZ in an '82 Westy.

Had the mechanic send out pump and injectors to a reputable technician for tuning and such.

Turns out the pump was from a 1.6 but the tech said it would be fine with his rebuild.

Also put an 03-04 turbo to replace the one that came with and all was supposedly synced or whatever it is they do in this case.

When I took delivery of said vehicle and paid my bill of 8.4k$ it was quite loud and I was assured that this was fine and so off I drove.
Within 3k miles or so, the crankshaft broke near the number 1 cylinder.

Poo.

As it turn out, the entire block was destroyed and so I ordered a new long block from another reputable shop.
Okay, I can handle this. After all, things happen.
After the shop that was doing the work got it dialed and I took delivery, it was less than 2k miles and once again a broken crankshaft in nearly the same place.
In discussing this with different mechanics, the opinion was that that there may be an issue with the fuel pump and or injectors. This started to make sense to me as these were the only parts common to both engines.
If there is anyone who has had this experience or can shed some light I would be very thankful to understand this better and make the appropriate fix.
I am out roughly 17k4 at this point and probably another 5k before it's all said and done.
I am intentionally not naming the people who did the work so as to filter out as much bias a s possible. Also in the event that I have pursue any legal action, this might be a prudent course of action.
This is the first one. Have not yet got a pic of the second one but it quite similar.

Sorry for the photo snafu. Not the brightest me.

[MarkWard]

You have a picture of the broken cranks? The cranks are pretty stout. I raced stock cranks for years with high compression pistons and 8500 rpm without snapping one. So it’s a weird failure.

Were you monitoring boost? Perhaps a picture of the pump would be helpful. Sorry about your bad luck.
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[old_man]

You said it sounded loud, do you know what the timing was set to or how it was set. Maybe it had way way way too much advance. I'm not an expert on tuning but there are very few shops on this planet (eg: Giles) that can take an IDI pump and 'tune' it for performance. Rebuilding one is more common. What exactly did they do for $8400? That's a lot of money.

Do you have pics of your set up? Pump, pistons, head..etc. How are you in this for $17K now? I'm struggling to understand these costs.

[?Waldo?]

Really weird failure. Unheard of.

The rods are much weaker than the crank. Anything putting extreme pressure on the crank will bend the rod before breaking the crank. The main saddles will also break before the crank. Really weird failure and even weirder to have it happen twice.

[AceTaylor]

I'd like to know what the secret is to spending that kind of money and not have your wife cut your b**ls off?

[?Waldo?]

Unmarried?

[drewbie49]

Well first off, thanks for looking.

Second, my wife and I are on the same page. This was supposed to be our get away mobile-and it was for a couple years. Now she won't drive this till it is figured out.

Thirdly, the money spent is an issue but I used to hold that "you get what you pay for". In this case I had supposedly enlisted some of the best in the industry and in this region. I am by no means rich or even well off but this is our RV and I hope to have it when my 7 year old gets old enough to drive.

The reason I say it sounded loud was that it was loud but was assured it was just a diesel and it would quiet down after it warmed up. Which it did after a few minutes of highway driving. The shop that did the install communicated with the fuel pump and confirmed both at installation and before disassembly that the timing was correct-I myself are a bit dim in these matters and hence I will pay good money for the experts to do the job and incur the liability

One thing I omitted in my first post was the incident in which I was driving up a fairly steep grade and the temp went way up-not max but the idiot light triggered and I pulled as quickly as possible. As soon as forward motion ceased, the radiator blew up. Big time it did. I was right around 2o00 RPM in 2nd gear- nothing unusual.

Luckily a local shop was able to get me back ion the road a day later.

I have always heard this is a very strong and reliable engine and it was before the upgrades.

So at present I am waiting for information about the fuel pump and injectors.

As for the failure itself, I too believed that another part would have failed before the crankshaft and others have expressed the same bewilderment.

[DanHoug]

[drewbie49]

Hey and thanks for the interest.

The shop put in a spanking new radiator. So the first time the engine crapped, the radiator was new from about 65k previous-about 5 or six years back. I purchased this in Oct 2014 and immediately had to have a shop go through it and when they were pressure testing it that one blew. So the one that blew a few weeks a go had about 65k on it maybe a bit more.

No one could say definitively why it over heated but recommended a custom build when I got home assuming this was constant issue. And I stated looking into that till the current problem arose. In fact, I believe we had a different thermostat out in -maybe 87 degree?

One person believed that the 1.6 pump was a contributing factor.

[drewbie49]

Got my pump and injectors back. Turns out the injectors were from a 1.6 but the pump and injectors were tuned for my 1.9 according to Giles that was sufficient but I am suspicious that something got lost in communication. I insisted on 1.9 injectors and went with new Bosches and Giles tuned the pump accordingy.

The new crankshaft just got in today and I hope to have the van rolling by next weekend.

I guess what I am wondering at this point is whether having 1.6 injectors was a contributing factor to my woes.

Also, my numbers were a bit off as far as what I spent. Still really high but it was originally 6400.00 for a hew 03-04 turbo, a new cam and lifters and the labor that goes with it along with the work from Giles. Was supposed to be top shelf but yadayada...

[?Waldo?]

1.6 injectors would not cause the crankshaft to break.

Tell more about the turbo installation. How was the oil supply and return routed? An 03-04 turbo? From an ALH? That is a VNT15. What type of vane control was used?

What I am getting at is that an improper turbo install is probably more likely to break the crankshaft than improper injectors.

Regardless, as I said before any possible theory to explain your broken crankshafts is really far fetched. Totally bizarre issue.

[DanHoug]

the injectors from the 1.6, 1.9, or Mercedes diesels are all largely the same body with very subtle differences in nozzle design. and those differences are pretty much moot because there's only a small choice in replacement nozzles now. what IS different between these injectors is the pop pressure. this is something that is easily checked with a 'pop tester' and set with shims of different thicknesses.

the pop pressure is important because different engines as well as turbo vs normally aspiriated require different pressures and the different pressures affect the injection timing... the higher the pop pressure the later the injection timing so the timing of the pump needs to be setup with the correct pop pressures.

it should all be Diesel 101 for someone that works on these... you have the pop spec for the engine, verify the injector pop pressure and spray pattern is good, and check pump timing.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[drewbie49]

Thank you both. That is some interesting information.
The turbo, according to the receipts is a KKK K03-04 Hybrid.
Also installed on his recommendation was a ceramic coated down pipe-(Black 1800deg F barrier coating).

Could I be headed to a different turbo or is it just the install?

At this point, I am not opposed to changing it out if it will solve the problem.

I will have to speak with the current technician to better understand all this but I hope I am on the edge off resolving this matter and get on with enjoying my van.

On another note, would there be a legal recourse? Any info in that direction would also be greatly appreciated.

[?Waldo?]

Ah, I misunderstood the 03-04 comment. A K03-04 hybrid would be fine. I have no good explanation on why your crankshaft broke, twice.

[Gnarlodious]

Running a 1.9turbo from a 1.6NA pump sounds like a death sentence. How would you expect to get proper fueling running in Tacoma, which is at sea level? It sounds like you were drastically underfueled, and the mechanic set the injection way too early as an attempt to make up for the underfueling, which explains the excessive combustion noise.

The AAZ runs with a certain oscillation in the crank due to the power stroke being inconsistent compared than the NA engine, which runs a smoother power cycle due to lower compression. Those of us who drive AAZ in cold climates know of the peculiar chirping that comes out of the belt tensioner due to this oscillation through the power cycle. In fact VW added a harmonic damper to the TDi just to stop said oscillation, which caused premature wear in the tensioner’s hinged bushing. Putting the TDi tensioner on your AAZ is a good upgrade to avoid the tensioner breakage.

If the pump was injecting much too early, and the belt was oscillating excessively, the timing would have responded causing reverse power at the time of combustion. The normal AAZ power cycle oscillation could have set up a destructive harmonic resonance through the length of the crankshaft with that break point taking the brunt of the colliding harmonic waves. Surely living in Tacoma you have heard of Galloping Gertie. Basically the same thing happened to your crankshaft.

I would fire that rebuilder and file a lawsuit, and name your van Gertie.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[drewbie49]

That sounds about right Gnarlodious. Although, somewhere I think there is some confusion regarding my set up. The turbo was proper-I believe. It was new but it was installed in bend Or. which is a little above sea level. But it does go back to using 1.6 parts adjusted for 1.9 specs. I was assured this was fine at the time but the pudding has been served and it did not please the customer.

It is still a mystery to me that this happened twice within 3-5k miles.

The technician who installed the replacement engine after the first broken crankshaft communicated with Giles so I felt confident the problem was addressed. However-and this a massive and expensive lesson for me-it apparently was not.

I guess we will see how it goes after the new parts are installed.

I would loved to have done all this myself but having no workspace puts me at a disadvantage. Unlike the '69 tin top I lived in for a while, this is a much more complex system that I am unable to work on myself.

Again, thanks to all the comments. The learning curve is strong in this one.

[drewbie49]

One other thing-I have the head with fresh cam and lifters if anyone needs one. Also a few transmission parts leftover form rebuilding one from two.
PM if interested-Cheers!

[westyventures]

[valvecovergasket]

[drewbie49]

Thanks for the input.

Guess I am real confused now.

The first engine was an overland product installed at NorthWesty in Renton and the second was a long block from Quality German in Victorville Installed at a shop in Tacoma.

The only parts common to both builds were the pump, injectors and turbo which was installed shortly prior to the first failure.

Maybe three times is a charm. We will see. it’s been a trip.