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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| super74beetle wrote: |
| epowell wrote: |
Hi Folks
I'm from Canada and live in the Czech Republic with my partner in a HUGE 200 year old house > we had the roof re-done with aluminum, and the guys removed the lightning rod.
I wonder if anyone can offer some advice regarding how to get some lightning protection affordably... (partial DIY?).
Thanks so much for your help.
Ed |
I have read all the posts in this thread and unless I missed it I haven't seen where a qualified electrician or contractor has replied to you. I am neither but I am a member here: https://www.garagejournal.com/. I would suggest that you become a member there and ask in the Electrical forum about your lightning rods. They may not know the codes in the Czech Republic but they know the safety aspects of electrical work. There are qualified electricians and contractors who will answer your questions.
Dennis |
Good Advice, thanks! I'll do that.
I did sign up for about 5 different homeimprovement forums and did get some good advice there...
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super74beetle
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2007
Posts: 97
Location: DEtroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| epowell wrote: |
Hi Folks
I'm from Canada and live in the Czech Republic with my partner in a HUGE 200 year old house > we had the roof re-done with aluminum, and the guys removed the lightning rod.
I wonder if anyone can offer some advice regarding how to get some lightning protection affordably... (partial DIY?).
Thanks so much for your help.
Ed |
I have read all the posts in this thread and unless I missed it I haven't seen where a qualified electrician or contractor has replied to you. I am neither but I am a member here: https://www.garagejournal.com/. I would suggest that you become a member there and ask in the Electrical forum about your lightning rods. They may not know the codes in the Czech Republic but they know the safety aspects of electrical work. There are qualified electricians and contractors who will answer your questions.
Dennis |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| some rods can be lightened a good amount some cant....and some people can lighten rods effectively and not hurt the rods.and some people can lighten the rods for swap meat usage....oh crap, rong kind of lightning rods....sorry... |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
| With a tree that close the rods might be worth your $$. Some insurance companies will give you a credit for having lightning protection. According to my friend ( an insurance agent) there were only 100,000 lightning claims in the US last year. Is that a lot? Not sure. He thinks its very little and your chances are slim of being struck. |
Thanks... it is definitely an interesting topic!
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AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1698
Location: The Old Pueblo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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With a tree that close the rods might be worth your $$. Some insurance companies will give you a credit for having lightning protection. According to my friend ( an insurance agent) there were only 100,000 lightning claims in the US last year. Is that a lot? Not sure. He thinks its very little and your chances are slim of being struck.
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| YDBD wrote: |
Our roof in Germany was just replaced last winter, the company removed all of the lightening rods and didn't replace them-apparently it was a thing of the past and not part of the building codes.
We do get some lightning, and looking around the neighborhood only old roof houses still have them. Our house is about the same height (3 floors) and corner lot with an open field across the street.
Check with the neighbors and city requirements, but if you believe you need them install them for piece of mind.
I would go with aluminum if you can, less weight and higher conductivity. |
Yeah, I've been researching, and also getting advice from various people - and what I am hearing points in the direction that the issue is not so black/white, in that it is not so clear that they actually work so well... some say that having one can even attract a strike.
Probably if it would left up to me alone I would just get it done, but actually the house belongs to my girlfriend who tells me clearly that she can't afford it right now. . . . .
Here in Moravia, there is a lot of stormy weather in Summer, and about 50% of houses in our town have lightning rods. My only concern is that our house is pretty tall... otherwise I wouldn't bother for sure.
So for now I've decided to let go of this and hope for the best.
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YDBD
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 891
Location: Bavaria, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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Our roof in Germany was just replaced last winter, the company removed all of the lightening rods and didn't replace them-apparently it was a thing of the past and not part of the building codes.
We do get some lightning, and looking around the neighborhood only old roof houses still have them. Our house is about the same height (3 floors) and corner lot with an open field across the street.
Check with the neighbors and city requirements, but if you believe you need them install them for piece of mind.
I would go with aluminum if you can, less weight and higher conductivity.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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Just found this thread. My unprofessional opinion is the first mistake was the choice of roofing material. Aluminum? Are you serious? On a building that tall? Now the whole bloody roof is a very effective lightening attractor!
Do not put any sort of ground cable through the inside of the house! That would virtually guarantee a fire! I see scorched walls and burnt ceilings as the future in that scenario!
Yes hire a professional lightening rod company to fix this and make sure they have a good insurance policy to cover their work! |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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Rods do work , and yes, they do invite lightning to strike by providing a path for the initial “ streamer” that ionizes the air, which creates the path for the main discharge. The details of many things like the rod is bonded to the wire and grounded are the devil that the pro knows about, these details are subtle. It’s not just sticking things together.
There is a vast subject expertise protecting assets like power line distribution and windmill farms.
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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Huge tree but only very slightly taller than the house itself.
I am now seriously wondering if rods really work anyway. Some friends are telling me that if we don't have a rod the lightning will be attracted to the nearby houses that DO have rods.
I looked it up and found out that actually there is no scientific research proving that rods work. Apparantly there have been no rods studies done in over 70 years. The current concensus however seems to be that they do work, but not as well as everyone seems to think.
So I'm currently sitting on the fence as to whether or not even to do anything about the issue. However the other night there was a huge storm and I couldn't sleep - I went to shut off the electrical breaker for the duration of the storm.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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This is not home owner type stuff. Get someone qualified in this to do this, it is not a simple electrical problem.
On boat fora, idiots trying to lightning proof their boats abound, and are stricken. From the gene pool In flash,
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
| In Florida, the grounding rod is required to be solid copper. |
That's the part that you drive into the ground. The wire to the roof can be copper, then the rod Al.
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 7951
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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why have I got the song 'let's go fly a kite!' in my head? 
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nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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67 Florida Deluxe
Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 7987
Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| raydog wrote: |
Just my opinion from reading this thread and using what I know about metals.
The price of copper is up there. A solid copper rod would cost a fortune. $200.00USD alone for a 3/4x6ft rod alone. Maybe think about a copper alloy, or aluminum. The roofers did you a favor by removing what was there. However, whether or not it was discussed, I don't know. The rods need to be totally isolated. If left there, the roof becomes a huge conductor unlike when it was slate. Corrosion from dissimilar metals is another concern. Also voiding the warranty on your new roof if you drill through it. As mentioned, something like this, I would ask professional advice. It's nice to get some input though to get you thinking about it. |
In Florida, the grounding rod is required to be solid copper. The building code of jurisdiction will prevail. If the local jurisdiction has no codified requirement, I'd go with the best possible, regardless of price. Just as I would with tires and brakes on my car. Some safety things you don't want to skimp on just to save a couple of bucks on the front end. 
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| raydog wrote: |
Just my opinion from reading this thread and using what I know about metals.
The price of copper is up there. A solid copper rod would cost a fortune. $200.00USD alone for a 3/4x6ft rod alone. Maybe think about a copper alloy, or aluminum. The roofers did you a favor by removing what was there. However, whether or not it was discussed, I don't know. The rods need to be totally isolated. If left there, the roof becomes a huge conductor unlike when it was slate. Corrosion from dissimilar metals is another concern. Also voiding the warranty on your new roof if you drill through it. As mentioned, something like this, I would ask professional advice. It's nice to get some input though to get you thinking about it. |
Yes exactly... I'm not expecting expert advice here on SAMBA. I just registered with 6 DIY HOME REPAIRS forums... perhaps some well-informed people over there.
To be honest, I would just pay to have it done, but the house belongs to my partner/commonlaw wife, and as a matter of principle I agree to pay half for such things... there has to be 'some' financial discipline or everything will get out of hand.
But she doesn't think the risk is high enough to bother - and she doesn't trust that I could do the job safely....
So it's a trick situation.
- - -
from what I am learning here, I don't think drilling the roof would be wise. Currently I am thinking best to attach the RODS to the chimneys, and run the cables (insulated) thru to tiny little roof-access skylights which are directly beside the chimneys.
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raydog
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1163
Location: Cape Cod
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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Just my opinion from reading this thread and using what I know about metals.
The price of copper is up there. A solid copper rod would cost a fortune. $200.00USD alone for a 3/4x6ft rod alone. Maybe think about a copper alloy, or aluminum. The roofers did you a favor by removing what was there. However, whether or not it was discussed, I don't know. The rods need to be totally isolated. If left there, the roof becomes a huge conductor unlike when it was slate. Corrosion from dissimilar metals is another concern. Also voiding the warranty on your new roof if you drill through it. As mentioned, something like this, I would ask professional advice. It's nice to get some input though to get you thinking about it. |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 7951
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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I know nothing about lightning conductors but isn't having the charge come inside the roof risking either a fire (all that nice dry old wood) or it jumping to your electrics/plumbing? this seems to me a situation for the professionals - either guidance or fitting, then you will be covered if sh!t happens.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:16 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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I'd make it from Aluminum bar, not copper.
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Lightning Rods - SEEKING advice! |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
You're asking people who are not experts about what you think is the right course of action. I know you want to save money, but spend it and do it right. If you run the rods directly through the roof you risk energizing the entire roof if you do get a strike - and that means a very large electrical load through the entire house. You want to risk your family to save a few bucks?
Your roofers were feeding you a load. Rods are typically separated and shielded from whatever they are mounted to just for that reason. Your roofing company owes you whatever they took off to be put back correctly. |
Hi Letterman
No I'm not expecting 'definitive' advice from the Samba members, but hoped to get some general ideas quickly. I see I now need to seek out a forum where there will be experts for more detailed advice.
I think I now understand why the roofers just ripped it all off - because the original electrical cable connecting the RODS to the GROUND (which ran along the rooftop) was copper. and that wouldn't have worked with an aluminum roof. So they would have had to use aluminum cable - and install all of that again properly. > they actually did a very good job of the roof, and would have charged us extra for the ROD re-installation... but I agree that they should have simply re-installed the RODS and simply charged us! Strange..... they just told us that we should contact another company to deal with the RODS.
I will not try to get in touch with some experts for more detailed advice > but so far what I am thinking to do is to attach copper RODS to the brick chimneys. The brick chimney should not conduct electricity. Then attach the copper cable to the ROD - very well insulate that cable and run the insulated cable thru a skylight into the attic. From the attic down to the roof eaves - thru the wall to the outside wall and down to the ground.
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