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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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 Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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As I recall, I just grab the clips with vice grips or hit it with a hammer or hit them with a screwdriver and hammer. They are just thin spring steel like a strapping band, and they just slide in and out.
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| Cap10323 wrote: |
I went through this exact situation last year. It's not an easy job, but it's a fairly straightforward one once you get everything out.
I would go ahead and replace the ball joints while you are in the process of rebuilding the beam. It is much easier to press out the old ball joints if you have the arms removed from the beam, and can put them in a hydraulic press. The joints on my replacement beam were so seized in the arms, the "C" shaped tool designed to remove them in the car actually broke. Which would've been a disaster if I had been trying to do the joints later in my driveway.
My solution to removing the bump stops was to slice the rubber mount off of the "stem" using a Sawz-All, and then purchase new stops and clips.
I would avoid leaving your brake system totally open to the elements. Maybe buy some plastic caps and cap up your master cylinder ports and brake lines. You don't want rust forming on the inside of the lines, to then be pushed further down into the calipers etc.
Also, what do you plan to do for the brake mounting plate? cut it off the old beam and weld it to the new one? I'm interested to see what you decide to do. |
I was thinking the same thing on removing the old bump stops-just cut them off and get new clips. I think that the spring clip and stud are rusted together pretty well. I did try some heat and PB Blaster last time I was messing with the replacement so maybe they did loosen up.
I got the spindles off today, and the sway bar. One of the bolts on the sway bar busted off as it was rusted into the arm, but heat, PB, wax, and a hammer finally loosened it up and I got it out. One of the clamps for the bar was also nearly rusted through.
My plan is currently to cut the brake booster bracket off the current beam and weld it to the "new" beam. Unfortunately, I noticed today that the steering stops aren't adjustable on the "new" beam. Dammit. Seller said they were and and I didn't look closely that day when I actually met him to pick it up. (I probably would have still bought it, because at the time there weren't any other options.) I will probably look at moving those parts over, too, or perhaps drilling the supports and welding on some nuts to make my own adjusters.
Found even more rust in one of the uprights. I think I'm embarrassed to post pics of this thing because of how rusty it is. Yikes.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| Found even more rust in one of the uprights. I think I'm embarrassed to post pics of this thing because of how rusty it is. Yikes. |
Post it up! We need some good rust p0rn around here. Strictly for educational purposes, of course.  |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Alright, well I've read comments in other threads about how one couldn't imagine driving with a beam with some rust and how it's unsafe and all that. So I don't need to hear that again here! I already recognize that I was fortunate here, it was foolish to put it off as long as I did, and all that. I'm lucky to be alive and all that.
One of the lower tubes actually cracked free a couple years ago. At that time, I was able to weld it up and thought it seemed pretty stout. Indeed, that worked ok for a couple years. But it finally cracked again and I knew it was time to do something else.
Incidentally, I did drive it once this spring before realizing it had cracked free. The fact that we're still alive shows that I didn't suddenly lose control and crash into a ditch or semi. However, the steering felt *very* loosey-goosey. But I did have full control the whole time. Again, perhaps I was simply lucky in not experiencing a spectacular/catastrophic failure.
Ok.. All that said, here are some rust porn pics.
This rust did surprise me. Goes to show how the uprights can rust from the inside out. I've been considering how I can maybe prevent this in the future. Perhaps flooding the area in Masterseries paint and later wax?
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Cap10323
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 604
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Mine wasn't much better.
| Quote: |
| My plan is currently to cut the brake booster bracket off the current beam and weld it to the "new" beam. Unfortunately, I noticed today that the steering stops aren't adjustable on the "new" beam. Dammit. Seller said they were and and I didn't look closely that day when I actually met him to pick it up. (I probably would have still bought it, because at the time there weren't any other options.) I will probably look at moving those parts over, too, or perhaps drilling the supports and welding on some nuts to make my own adjusters. |
I don't mean to be a wet sandwich, but at this point it might still be a viable option to sell the 70 beam, and find a late bay beam in good shape. Is that late beam you mentioned earlier still for sale?
I feel like you're not going to have as good of results modifying this beam as you would with an actual late beam. But I'm also far from an expert, so don't listen to me 
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-Ian
'77 Westfalia - 2.0 F.I |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16886
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
I've been considering how I can maybe prevent this in the future. Perhaps flooding the area in Masterseries paint and later wax?
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if you look carefully at the bottom of the "pods" they should have lips doinked in at the factory. these are drains. keep them clear and you should be fine.
if anything, I might try to shoot some fluid film up there. its kind of runny, and on hot days may drip a bit.
problem is that area collects "fines" from the roads...you know, that powdery dust. i'd be afraid that anything in there would collect that crud and lock it in place.
I don't drive in shit weather, but I hit those with compressed air from time to time
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22671
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Holy craps,Batmsn, those Busses were on the road?
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Cap10323
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 604
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Holy craps,Batmsn, those Busses were on the road?
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My bus (which admittedly wasn't as rusty as Westyman's) drove perfectly even with such a heavily deprecated beam. If you hadn't crawled underneath, you'd never have thought anything was wrong.
Which is scary, because at some point you would've had a rude awakening. 
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-Ian
'77 Westfalia - 2.0 F.I |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22671
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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I had a Bay with a good beam, but the steering kingpin box broke off the axle on the Squajaquada Expressway at 55mph
Fun fun fun
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| Abscate wrote: |
I had a Bay with a good beam, but the steering kingpin box broke off the axle on the Squajaquada Expressway at 55mph
Fun fun fun |
My mom was driving the bus when the box section holding the steering pin broke free from the beam. Somehow she got it home. When I moved the car in the driveway I had to move the wheels by hand to get it to go in the right direction to park it. That was like 25 years ago. |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
Alright,
Ok.. All that said.
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vwwestyman, I have modified all of my buses to include my own drain holes on each side of the pinchwelds where the laughable factory drain slots are sure to be clogged.
I have a total of four drain holes drilled to accept a typical wire coat hanger.
I scrape all friable rust out of the support stampings, and blast the drain holes and the upper stamping "drain hole" next to the upper shock mount (it looks like the lower drain hole bump) with 120# compressed air. Scrape and blast until no more flakes come out.
Then I use a can of rust-catalyzing primer with a carb spray nozzle and straw stuck on, and I use compressed air in the other side of the pinchweld's hole and blast the entire inner cavity with the rust-catalyzing primer. Air will blast out of the top of the stamping near the upper shock support. You can use that hole to blast primer down as well.
All three beams are hanging in there ...
Colin
(first performed 12/2015)
( five years and 70,000 miles later 04/2020)
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Good info Colin, thank you!
I would say at least 3 of the 4 ball joints seemed to be somewhat worn. I'll double check and measure officially, but they seemed to all have some in/out play.
I do plan to look through the other threads, but are there any known current winners for brand/sources of good ball joints?
Also, I think I like the idea of having the ability to lift the front a little. I've always been under the impression that beam adjusters were typically used to lower the front; can they be installed in such a way to raise it? Does raising and lowering the front in this manner change the alignment in any way?
I'm just thinking maybe I'd like to be able to keep it at stock height most of the time, but if I were going to go do some off road camping or something, be able to bump it up before leaving for that particular trip.
I'm also thinking I'll probably get a beefier sway bar while I'm at it.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Finished removing the beam this afternoon, and got the brackets moved from the rusty beam to the replacement.
To remove the upper arms, I used the technique of hammering them out so that the spring pressure would be relieved, then they just came off like the bottom ones. No problemo.
I was pleasantly surprised that all 8 bolts holding my beam in came out easily. I fully expected rust to be an issue here, but no issue at all.
I did notice that the arm off the steering box has some play. Is this adjustable by following the Bentley adjusting procedure? (Or otherwise worrisome?) I do plan on also pulling the steering box and replacing the seals as it's been weepy for a long time.
Link
Saw a mention in Bentley about using some kind of special holder to keep the beam from crashing down. Instead, I used some jack stands to help hold it in case it suddenly let loose. I lowered them notch by notch as the beam was tapped down. As it turned out, it was tight enough to the body that it didn't drop until fully free so that was overkill. Oh well.
Once it was down, I was able to cut the booster bracket and steering adjuster brackets off and weld them to the replacement beam. At that point, it was time to quit and make dinner.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Cap10323
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 604
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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When I did mine, I initially bought replacement ball joints from a company called "Beck & Arnley" and thought the quality was pretty bad. The nut was extremely flimsy and upper "cup" part seemed very thin and shitty.
I ended up ordering ball joints from Busdepot (P/N: 211405371A) which are from a German supplier called Lemföerder. Vastly superior quality, absolutely identical to OEM and came with Nyloc nuts.
As far as the steering box goes, that should be very easy to adjust out with the adjustment screw on the side of the box.
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-Ian
'77 Westfalia - 2.0 F.I |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Got some work done on this thing over the long weekend.
I painted it with Masterseries paint, as well as painting the areas of the front floor that had some heavy scale/surface rust, and I decided to slather the areas of the frame behind the beam, in case there was any scratching from dropping the old or putting up the new.
Also painted the control arms and swing lever. I'm reusing the tie rods and relay lever, but decided I was over it as far as prepping and painting went...
I noticed one ball didn't look that great, but given that it was still completely tight, the quality of new parts, the fact that I've hit the budget for this project, the other parts are already on the way, and that I want to go camping one last time before the new Baby comes in late October, I've decided that I'll leave it for now with fresh grease and a boot, and check it from time to time and consider replacing down the road.
Bolting up the beam was straightforward. I set the front tires under the wheel wells and was able to get the beam in there laying back. Then I was able to get in there underneath and bench press it up into place, pop a couple bolts in and crawl out to bolt it in. I smeared some grease on the frame to help it slide in since the old one was so tight coming off. This went in pretty darn easy.
I was able to bolt up the brake booster before running out of time for the day.
Tires are on the list, too!
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| I'm hoping I can get to this without pulling the knuckle all apart. |
You're going to be pulling the knuckle apart to replace all the new boots, aren't you? 
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| airschooled wrote: |
| vwwestyman wrote: |
| I'm hoping I can get to this without pulling the knuckle all apart. |
You're going to be pulling the knuckle apart to replace all the new boots, aren't you? |
I was hoping that I could just undo the one ball joint and lower the knuckle (and/or force the arm up) enough to swing it out of the way.
Why would I need to replace the other ball joint boot or tie rod end boot? Was that just a goof or am I missing something?
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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Let us know if you get away with just doing the lower spindle/joint junction removal. The backing plate on disc brake buses gets in my way regardless of spin, so I don’t know much work it would be vs. just removing the spindle completely.. Because...
If one new boot ripped now, what are the others going to look like in a year or two? There are many boots available; I can’t say they’re all created equally. But yours doesn’t look promising.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Front Beam Replacement Questions |
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| airschooled wrote: |
Let us know if you get away with just doing the lower spindle/joint junction removal. The backing plate on disc brake buses gets in my way regardless of spin, so I don’t know much work it would be vs. just removing the spindle completely.. Because...
If one new boot ripped now, what are the others going to look like in a year or two? There are many boots available; I can’t say they’re all created equally. But yours doesn’t look promising. |
x2
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