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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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| BusBerd wrote: |
| Buslab says that these are for Vanagon's 80-85. |
Which are identical to '73-'79 bus Girling calipers, except for the orientation of
the brake fluid port. Product application details given by vendors are frequently
inaccurate.
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| BusBerd wrote: |
| Buslab says that these are for Vanagon's 80-85. |
Which are identical to '73-'79 bus Girling calipers, except for the orientation of
the brake fluid port. Product application details given by vendors are frequently
inaccurate. |
Got it. thanks!
I've read that there may be some clearance issues (not necessarily insurmountable issues) in the late bays with the brake fluid port coming off the bottom of the caliper rather than off the side like mine.
But at least I can be assured that these are the correct and likely original calipers for this year bus.
Thanks again!
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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| BusBerd wrote: |
My retaining pins definitly look like these ATE pins. There are no hairpins on the ends holding them in.
this is my hardware:
For the Girling hardware, most of the auto parts sites have a photo that does not show any retaining pins. Just the hairpins and the spreader spring.https://www.busdepot.com/13106
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The hardware for my Girling caliper was delivered today and there are no retaining pins included in the hardware. I don't understand why. Anyone know where to get the retaining pins for a Girling caliper???
_________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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Yes, I can continue to use them in a pinch, but I'd like to get the correct retaining hardware.
Thanks for the link to heritageparts. Bummer they are out of stock. But, I started searching again and found a set of the correct hardware on ebay. I'm paying way too much for this unnecessarily, I know. But what the hell. It brings me joy to know that it is not jury-rigged.
_________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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Here is a question:
Is there any reason that I cannot replace the girling calipers with the more common ATE calipers?
I was just notified by rockauto.com that their online inventory was incorrect and they do NOT have a right girling caliper to send to me. At this point, I am wondering if I should just install the more common ATE calipers and be done with it. I am assuming they are interchangeable, correct???
I want to get back on the road...
(Also, FYI, "rockauto.com" has literally ZERO customer service. good luck with order changes, shipping questions, or anything else. I will never be using them again.)
_________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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Yes, ATE and Girling calipers are 100% interchangeable, provided both wheels use the same brand.
There are also no-name ATE clones from Brazil and elsewhere that seem to
be OK according to some posts here.
_________________
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'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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So I received my caliper pistons today. I ordered "Girling Caliper Pistons". They were labeled specifically as Girling Caliper Pistons on the website. however they sure look like ATE Caliper pistons to my untrained eye. My question is:
Can I use these in my Girling calipers?
If so, do I NEED new ATE piston backing plates to match these pistons?
They seem to be the same size as my old pistons.
Photo of all 3 new pistons:
close up of the piston with the ATE ledge on the top:
close up of new piston on the left next to my old girling piston on the right
close up of bottom of the new piston on the left next to the bottom of my old girling piston on the right
old piston measurement
new piston measurement:
Old piston measurement:
New piston measurement:
Old piston measurement:
New piston measurement:
_________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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Amazing. Bit by bit, your Girling calipers are being transformed into the ATE variety.
The remaining question is whether the dust boots will work with those ATE pistons (I assume
you have new Girling boots?).
Quite a few here with ordinary ATE calipers have reported they work fine without the piston
retaining plates.
_________________
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'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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BusBerd
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2005
Posts: 834
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
Amazing. Bit by bit, your Girling calipers are being transformed into the ATE variety.
The remaining question is whether the dust boots will work with those ATE pistons (I assume
you have new Girling boots?).
Quite a few here with ordinary ATE calipers have reported they work fine without the piston
retaining plates. |
Yup,
when I took them off there were no piston retaining plates. I'm just trying to do the job right. With that said, I am tempted to put these in just to get me rolling again until I can either locate the correct parts or bail on the Girling altogether and get the fricken ATE calipers.
_________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
1977 Westfalia Camper Bus 2.0L Fuel Injected Engine, Manual Transmission |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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| BusBerd wrote: |
| ...when I took them off there were no piston retaining plates. |
Actually, the Girling plates retain nothing. They just ensure the pistons apply their force on the correct end of the
pads. The ATE plates do the same, but do so by forcing the correct orientation of the specially shaped piston heads.
Once correctly oriented, the ATE pistons are not likely to change in use, and perhaps that's why so many say they
run without them with no problem.
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'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: What is the difference between ATS and Girling Front Calipers? |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| BusBerd wrote: |
| ...when I took them off there were no piston retaining plates. |
Actually, the Girling plates retain nothing. They just ensure the pistons apply their force on the correct end of the
pads. The ATE plates do the same, but do so by forcing the correct orientation of the specially shaped piston heads.
Once correctly oriented, the ATE pistons are not likely to change in use, and perhaps that's why so many say they
run without them with no problem. |
Mmmm....no. The ATE pistons actually change orientation quite a bit. It really depends on your pad backing plate hardness and how you drive and how hard you brake from everything I can figure from my experience.
Simply put....if you use pad shims like the Raybestos or Wagner where the pistosn can leave an indentation of a few thousandths....you are right they never seem to move. If you are right on the back of the average steel backed pad....they move.
I highly recommend pad shims either way. They are great at keeping squeal away. Ray |
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