1978 engine into 1974 van

[OuttaHand]

I have a 1974 Type 2. It has no engine but does have an automatic trans in it.

Also have an engine and automatic trans out if a 2978 Type 2. (I believe that’s a 2.0 L ?)

I want to put the 1978 engine/transmission combo into the 1974.
I don’t trust that the fuel injection system was working on the 1978 so I am planning to put on a carbureted intake manifold, carburetor set up to go on this engine.

Question:

Will the ‘78 engine/trans combo bolt into the ‘74 without any major problems?

What issues might I expect?
What’s the best source for things like intake, carb, air cleaner, etc.?
Any good sources for remanufactured engines & transmissions?$$

[Wildthings]

I think the engine and transmission package will be a bolt in and if you have the complete throttle and shifter setups for the later transmission those should be close to a bolt in as well. Others will likely know more.

You likely will want to buy a dual carb setup as there is no easy way to get manifold heat to a centermounted carb.

[SGKent]

most here build their own engines. Lots of folks looking for FI parts. Don't forget the ECU that lives in the 1978 near the battery, or the components on the firewall, air cleaner etc..
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[JaimeH]

[busdaddy]

I'd choose FI over a carb any day for someone with limited engine tuning experience, if you can read a meter or gauge and follow instructions you can fix FI, carbs require an experienced ear and some trial and error. Not impossible, but a far bigger (and sometimes more expensive) learning curve.
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[OuttaHand]

Thank you all for the excellent info so far!

Two follow-up questions:

1) I am considering having a shop do the engine / trans install. (I'm old and fat and really don't want to do it myself!)
The shop is having trouble finding flat rate times for this. Anyone have a source for a flat-rate time book for these?


2) IF I go the route of carbs, it looks like I'm going to spend around $400 for a dual Weber setup w/ carbs, manifolds, air cleaners, etc. I am not too concerned about the tuning. I am pretty experienced with carbs and performance
But IF I try to use the Fuel Injection setup, how much am I looking at if I have to buy a new ECU or other pricey part? Plus -- I'm pretty sure the fuel pump was not pulled from the donor van.

Thoughts?.

[airschooled]

VW automatics take major tuning time to dial in when using non-stock induction. Many shops have the skills to do this, but parts are not available and absolutely nothing will plug-and-play like with a stock setup. Do it with friends over enough time to do it right, or prepare your pocketbook.

If everything was pre-assessed and assembled, use book time for engine/transaxle RnR. The shifter and throttle cable setups were entirely different, so all the linkage and wiring harnesses will need to be made fabricated or transferred from the ‘78. There is no book time for stuff like that.

To do it right, you’d essentially have to scrap the ‘78 for chassis mounts and things that the auto setup needs. Is the ‘78 really that far gone?

Robbie
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[Wildthings]

The L-jet ECUs are very dependable and thus seldom need replacement. The part of the FI that needs replacement most often is the TSII head temperature sensor, for which replacements can presently be had. Most every other part of the FI system has a very long life, so once you get it set up the first time it should run for many years before reapairs are needed. The rubber boots, hoses, and elbows are the exception to being long lasting, but they should make it 5+ years.

[danfromsyr]

paying shop rates this will get outtahand price wise quite quickly.
esp if you aren't finding classic experienced mechanics.

this is where I always tell people that a project will cost more than a already done one... though at the moment the prices on ANY bay are moving so fast it's hard to tell.

on the fuel injection route, there aren't new ECUs. so you'll be after good used.. they're out there. and yes people charge too much.. shouldn't be more than $100 known good used..
as for fuel pumps.. it's not some mystical device. you can run a ~$100 bosch pump.. I run one from Napa/autozone listed for a 1989 ford mustang/F150..
the FI harness is often old and in need of some wire revitalization or you can chase bugs from broken traces in the harness..

I guess if you could share your location we can help to locate a more specialized shop or enthusiast in your area.
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[ToolBox]

[cmonSTART]

No sane shop would flat rate something like this on a vehicle this old. One suck or stripped old fastener and you're losing money.
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[vwwestyman]

I do a little work on the side for fun and a little extra cash from time to time. Of course, my customers don't have new cars, so I always explain my hourly rate and the fact that there is a chance I'll have to fight rusted or broken stuff that could make things more difficult or take longer. For old stuff, that seems like the fairest way to do things.

That to say, I tend to agree with the comments about being wary of a shop wanting to find a "book" amount of time.

All the stock mounting stuff from my '73 and '78 with manual transmissions are the same, so I would have guessed it'd be similar for the auto transmissions, but I trust people like Robbie's experience with that.

I adapted fuel injection from a '78ish Bus into my '73. Based on the tuning comments for the transmission to work, and the fact that FI is actually pretty great and not hard to figure out, I'm in the camp of move that stuff over, too. It readily fit, just had to cut a hole for the ECU. I did omit the charcoal canister stuff though.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[JaimeH]

So you have a '74 with and automatic and no engine and the engine & trans from a '78 with 2.0L and automatic but that's it. The '74 would have the 003 Auto trans and the '78 would have an 010 Auto trans. The transmission controls are different. A direct swap would not be simple without having the '78 bus there to get all the parts from.
You might have better luck with the 2.0L working with the 003 trans, but if you don't have the original carbs & linkage from the '74 that won't be a direct fit either.
Quite a few changes were made through the years, ie carbs to FI and 003 to 010. If you're asking if this will be a smooth transition, the answer is no. You'll have to come up with a variety of parts to make this work either way.
This is a long term DIY project at best.
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1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
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[danfromsyr]

in the 73-75 003 automatic the throttle cable goes right to the carbs. the transmission has a vacuum connection to a modulator and a switch/wire from the bottom of the throttle pedal to trigger it to kick down.

in the 76-79 010 automatic the throttle cable goes from the pedal to a 'relay lever' on the side of the transmission. then there's a solid rod with a spring coupler that joins to the fuel injected throttle body. this spring allows the throttle rod & cable to 'over reach' ie. pull further than (WOT) wide open throttle so it can attain kick down for hills/heavy accelerating in traffic
Now you (or a good shop) can make a dual throttle cable arrangement that would pull the AT relay lever simultaneously with the throttle(s) and make sure the AT reaches kickdown at (WOT)
but that's a little 'custom' cable work that will cost a few hours plus parts.. so in the end won't be cheap.

the wiring harnesses aren't that hard to connect. there is NO transmission wiring aside form the 003 kickdown wire, and that can be forgone if you're ok with just pulling it into 2nd by hand at the shifter for hills.

to add fuel injection to a non-fuel injected chassis the fuel tank lacks the proper fuel return port.. in my case I used one of the tank top vent lines.. there are 2 and in my case it's been working fine for years. but you and your mechanic's sensibilities will have to decide how you return the extra fuel to the tank.

the Fuel injection only has a couple wires to the main chassis..
a IGN wire from the key to coil, and the FI picks that up there.
a +12v POS feed to power the relays.
a few -NEG grounds as well.
the fuel pump IMO should be sourced NEW.. either from a VW vendor or just a flaps unit for a late 80s' ford mustang/f150 is more than enough.
there are a few examples of the bus FI harness with labels out there on the internet.. check www.ratwell.com for much of this work.
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[ImAddicted]

You didn't happen to ask this question on FB earlier this week, did you?
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1979 Transporter (sold)
KC1MUR

[OuttaHand]

Well -- I've learned a LOT in a short time here!
I used to think that VW's were a very simple machine and you could mix-and-match things like crazy. Apparently, not so much.

So here's my take-away:
1) I'm going to rebuild the engine myself. I've worked on similar engines a lot and I'm comfortable doing this myself.

2) I'm going to install the rebuilt engine with the trans that was matched with it out of the '78

3) I'm going to stick with the fuel injection system and see if it works.

4) After everything is reassembled and installed, iif it doesn't start right up I'm going to cry like a little girl and wonder what the heck I was thinking.

Question: I was TOLD that the '78 parts donor van was running and driving when it was parked. How robust and trustworthy are these automatic transmissions? Should I consider having a transmission shop go through it before I reinstall it?

Any other thoughts / suggestions?

[OuttaHand]

[Abscate]

Treat the 1978 as an unknown until proven otherwise.
M” ran when parked” is number three behind “ check is in the mail” and “ I’ll pull….”
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.ssS!

[danfromsyr]

FWIW the automatic transmission portion of the VW 010 transaxle (transmission + differential) is essentially the same for EVERY VW/AUDI/PORSCH from 1976-1992 ie. 1980-1993 cabriolet Automatics.
there is very good workflow R&R in the vanagon bentley manual, I'm not familiar with the Bay Bentley manual. you can find a online pdf of the vanagon bentley with a basic search.

most any transmission shop can R&R the internals.

you need the shifter housing and front/back rod-cable from the 1978.
good news is that the shifter cable and housing from your 1974 is rare and on occasion someone is looking for one when theirs failed.
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