| Author |
Message |
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:26 pm Post subject: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
 |
|
I want to build a new 36 hp engine for my oval beetle with judson supercharger.
how could you get a little more performance.
- more displacement?
- WW camshaft?
- 1:15 rocker arm?
- 33mm inlet valves?
what do you mean?
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:55 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
I want to build a new 36 hp engine for my oval beetle with judson supercharger.
how could you get a little more performance.
- more displacement?
- WW camshaft?
- 1:15 rocker arm?
- 33mm inlet valves?
what do you mean? |
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..don't use a Judson supercharger there over rated .cost to much money .and don't make that much HP . you would be better off using dual carbs. a cam would help. good header . bigger valves mild porting of your heads. a 019 or 010 dizy .it depends on how much money you want to spend. to make more HP for your motor. or go with a wolfburg west okrasa kit the kit comes with new heads carbs every thing you would need .the kit is way better than a Judson set up good luck spencerfvee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Quote: |
| ……………………………………………………………………………………………..don't use a Judson supercharger there over rated .cost to much money .and don't make that much HP . you would be better off using dual carbs. a cam would help. good header . bigger valves mild porting of your heads. a 019 or 010 dizy .it depends on how much money you want to spend. to make more HP for your motor. or go with a wolfburg west okrasa kit the kit comes with new heads carbs every thing you would need .the kit is way better than a Judson set up good luck spencerfvee |
that was not my question! I already have a vintage 36 hp engine with 50 hp on the dyno
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ……………………………………………………………………………………………..don't use a Judson supercharger there over rated .cost to much money .and don't make that much HP . you would be better off using dual carbs. a cam would help. good header . bigger valves mild porting of your heads. a 019 or 010 dizy .it depends on how much money you want to spend. to make more HP for your motor. or go with a wolfburg west okrasa kit the kit comes with new heads carbs every thing you would need .the kit is way better than a Judson set up good luck spencerfvee |
that was not my question! I already have a vintage 36 hp engine with 50 hp on the dyno |
You did say you you wanted to build a new 36hp engine and wanted to add a Judson?? You didn't say you had a 36hp 50hp engine ...so I see nothing wrong with what spencerfvee said .... so are you looking to add a Judson to that 50hp engine or do you already have a 50hp Judson and looking for more hp ???? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ……………………………………………………………………………………………..don't use a Judson supercharger there over rated .cost to much money .and don't make that much HP . you would be better off using dual carbs. a cam would help. good header . bigger valves mild porting of your heads. a 019 or 010 dizy .it depends on how much money you want to spend. to make more HP for your motor. or go with a wolfburg west okrasa kit the kit comes with new heads carbs every thing you would need .the kit is way better than a Judson set up good luck spencerfvee |
that was not my question! I already have a vintage 36 hp engine with 50 hp on the dyno |
You did say you you wanted to build a new 36hp engine and wanted to add a Judson?? You didn't say you had a 36hp 50hp engine ...so I see nothing wrong with what spencerfvee said .... so are you looking to add a Judson to that 50hp engine or do you already have a 50hp Judson and looking for more hp ???? |
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… people post on samba and ask what people would build for there new motor.then when they don't like what you say .they get upset. I was just trying to save him a big head ack. if he used a Judson super charger. I have used a Judson in the past. it was all brand new and I ended up taking it off .one should not post on samba .if they that get up set . oh well he could have had a bad day lol lol that's samba lol spencerfvee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
that was probably a misunderstanding.
I already have a 36hp engine with 2 carburetors and 50 hp on the dyno.
I would now like to build a new engine with a judson. and my question is about the new engine with judson.
I didn't want to know that it makes more sense to install a 2 carburettor system.
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:55 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
that was probably a misunderstanding.
I already have a 36hp engine with 2 carburetors and 50 hp on the dyno.
I would now like to build a new engine with a judson. and my question is about the new engine with judson.
I didn't want to know that it makes more sense to install a 2 carburettor system. |
What are your goals for that Judson...meaning you want more than 50hp the reason I ask is because a Judson has its limits many tried adding big bores and ratio rockers and gained little the judson is a restrictor for big bore engine reason why there to small ...you have to understand back in 1956 when these Judson were added as a performance upgrade for the 1200cc was that yes it worked but you have to understand that back in those days no one was making performance upgrades besides the judson and pepco yes folks knew about dual carbs back in those days but they didn't want to spend that extra gas with a dual setup the judson back in those days would save gas and add power but now days engines are not build like they were in 1956 we have so many upgrades for better performance and the judson just can't keep up with the demands of today's performance... if your looking for a Cruiser type motor the judson will be fine many have notice a Judson works best for the motor displacement it was design for meaning 1200cc ...you can counterweight the crank add the 1.15 rockers and be fine for that cruiser type 1200cc type Judson when you start to go with big bore and bigger intake 33mm you need more air to flow and the judson which you would think would benefit nope not so much ..but if you add the big bore and bigger intake like I said more air flows so what will happen is since there's more demand for more air you will over drive the judson rotor and it will wear out faster and make nasty clanking noises ... I think the pepco " speedwell" supercharger is a better supercharger than the judson many will even say the pepco " speedwell" charger isn't as great as well ... some should dyno a speedwell vs judson and see what's really better I think hotvw should in there magazine that would be cool ...but anyways what spencerfvee was talking about or trying to say but in short terms is that a Judson is not made for bigger hp and that if your looking for hp dual carbs are your man and you will save tons of money compare to a Judson since there so expensive and not so great there great for what they were design for and their looks .... we all hear the word supercharger and we think " fast " not so much the judson its to small maybe if it was bigger it would be good for bigger displacements ....... I think I summoned it up I know there's gonna those guys and be nope he's "me" wrong but that's my advise ....if you like spending money than a Judson is for you dual carbs will save you from problems even though you don't wanna hear about dual carbs just advise .....i would run a Judson myself for a cruiser if the judson was all new/ fully rebuild and given to me for free 🤔😁 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jacks
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: San Clemente, Ca.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:24 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
I remember seeing that picture years ago and was like I have to do that but just one Judson is expensive as is ...imagine buying anther I would be broke lol it would be cool to see that rich guy out there do a twin Judson... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:38 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
hay jerry heres some photos of my 40hp motor with a pepco super charger . . spencerfvee ps the top photo is not my car just shows a repo pepco super charger shorock super charger in the inch pincher it made 170hp
Last edited by spencerfvee on Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:28 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
This is my vintage speed Motor with 2x 32 pci solex and man more.
50Ps in tue dyno.
Ans this is my judson for a new Engine projekt
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7215
Location: Videbaek Denmark
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
Grüss Gott 
While I somewhat agree on the judson not being that efficient it is period correct and what was used at the time.
Wrt tweaking the engine to get more power. Well a lot can be done, but at a price as you very well know.
The simple ands cheap way of increasing the efficiency of a Judson engine is cleaning up the ports in the cylinderheads along with a decent valve and seat job, increase CR to 7,5, use an intake manifold from a 34 hp 1200 and improve the exhaust. The next thing to do is do not use the 010 distributor. Use the VJU 4 BR8/1 or VJUR 4 BR8/1 instead so you can use the vacum to retard the timing when not using the power. That gives a much better throttle response and a cooler running engine. These small mods can give you 5-6 hp more.
Next step is larger valves as you menthion 33 x 29. It mostly gives you a wider rpm band plus some torque, but of course a couple of hp increase too.
Next step again is a "hotter" cam. I once had Elgin grind me a cam for such an engine. He/we decided on a Porsche 356A grind (103N) That gave the engine a little lumpy idle, but it really woke it up powerwise. It has never been on the dyno, but I´m guessing 55ish hp.
At this point the judson could not deliver enough air to maintain full boost (I forgot how much that was, but I seem to remember that it could only deliver between 3 & 4 psi.
Hope this helps.
T
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
This is my vintage speed Motor with 2x 32 pci solex and man more.
50Ps in tue dyno.
Ans this is my judson for a new Engine projekt |
can you post a full photo of your vw bug .its super looking... clean motor great job looks like you have all the right parts to your Judson you seem to know what you want go for it spencerfvee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
My 5.'56 oval
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:04 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
My 5.'56 oval
|
.........................................................……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..wow super nice 56 vw bug .my god you built a super looking 56 bug . the inside is so clean .you did a lot of work . thanks for posting the photos of your 56 I love old vw bugs and old school parts spencerfvere |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:37 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
Thanks
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9651
Location: Pearl River, NY
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:44 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
Klasse Kaefer! What a thrill to participate at what looks to be the Bad Camberg vintage meet. What taillamps are those? They look like the US-type "eggs" which were used in place of the heart lamps on early 1955 Beetles before every market received the "snowflakes" in 8/1955. The eggs were also mounted lower than the snowflakes.
Is that a Sebring style exhaust?
Switzerland's Furka Pass with Hotel Belvedere! You've really taken it on longer trips. Did you know that there's a short scene in the James Bond movie "Goldfinger" that is at the same location, where Auric Goldfinger is riding in his Rolls-Royce there? In 1964 when the movie was released, it appears that road was not yet paved.
About 20 years ago I drove a well maintained, original '58 Beetle that had its stock 1200 cc 36 hp (30 hp DIN) and was fitted with a Judson. Drove it about 50 miles, mostly level highway and country roads. It felt like a 1500 cc engine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
My 56 Oval is now in the vw Classic Magazine
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldschool56
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Biberach
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Alstrup wrote: |
Grüss Gott
While I somewhat agree on the judson not being that efficient it is period correct and what was used at the time.
Wrt tweaking the engine to get more power. Well a lot can be done, but at a price as you very well know.
The simple ands cheap way of increasing the efficiency of a Judson engine is cleaning up the ports in the cylinderheads along with a decent valve and seat job, increase CR to 7,5, use an intake manifold from a 34 hp 1200 and improve the exhaust. The next thing to do is do not use the 010 distributor. Use the VJU 4 BR8/1 or VJUR 4 BR8/1 instead so you can use the vacum to retard the timing when not using the power. That gives a much better throttle response and a cooler running engine. These small mods can give you 5-6 hp more.
Next step is larger valves as you menthion 33 x 29. It mostly gives you a wider rpm band plus some torque, but of course a couple of hp increase too.
Next step again is a "hotter" cam. I once had Elgin grind me a cam for such an engine. He/we decided on a Porsche 356A grind (103N) That gave the engine a little lumpy idle, but it really woke it up powerwise. It has never been on the dyno, but I´m guessing 55ish hp.
At this point the judson could not deliver enough air to maintain full boost (I forgot how much that was, but I seem to remember that it could only deliver between 3 & 4 psi.
Hope this helps.
T |
Have sou pictures from your Engine?
Which carburator ans Jet setup?
Thanks Christian
_________________
'53 Panelvan
'56 Vintage Speed Oval
----
'56 T2 Messerschmitt Vespa
'58 VNA 1T Vespa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:22 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp judson supercharger more Performance? |
|
|
| Oldschool56 wrote: |
My 56 Oval is now in the vw Classic Magazine |
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..your 56 bug made the vw classic magazine . wow that's got to make all the hard work you did to build your 56 . worth it . great job .I am sure your not done with your 56 yet . cant wait to see what your going to do next on your 56 take care be safe spencerfvee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
