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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:00 pm Post subject: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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I was inspired by baltik's success putting: New Record? 120 usable Amp Hours under Driver's seat (in the battery box)
....and ordered the 150Ah from a USA warehouse.
They arrived in 5 days via Fedex for $523. With the battery management system and chargers etc it's marching towards ----> $900. Yikes
But it's a 'real 150Ah' as opposed to lead batteries which are actually about '50%' of their Ah rating.
And supposedly the LiFePo4 last 10 years. (we'll see).
I hoped to stuff them in under the swivel, but initial measurements didn't look good.
The 135Ah seemed to fit and I was a little bummed about buying the 150s.
So I decided to just put the DC-DC converter/charger in there.
Which was not going to be easy.
Another member (ProspectiveOwnergon) mentioned the swivelectomy on GoWesty's youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWKRkfJkcdE
So I cut my swivel out.
I might make the swivel bolt back in.
Not sure yet.
I almost NEVER use the drivers seat swivel, and I don't think I'll miss it.
But in any case.... While I was in there I noticed a bit more space that was easily gained.
Cutting this sheetmetal allows the four 150 AH batteries to fit.
I'll probably silicone the batteries to a thin board.
I kinda like this configuration, it lets the batteries heat & cool better.
They're inside the van, where it might be warmer in the winter (with the propex running).
And the other stuff (DC-DC converter) can hopefully fit in the battery box location, where it's easier to access.
Ya know, this can trigger kind of an arms race, where some feller's gonna put 150+150Ah on the driver side and another 150 under the passenger seat.
Other stuff I've ordered, which is trickling in...
A used 130A Tribeca alternator (Current EJ25; 95Amp) thats another $90!
120A BMS + Bluetooth dongle on Amazon. (last one?) $125
IQ4 module for LiFePo4 so my Iota DLS-30 can charge from 120vAC. $22
Renogy 60A DC-DC converter to make the most use of the 130A Tribeca alternator..
Anyway, big thanks to member baltik for his pioneering DIY LiFePo4 project, and thanks to all the other members who helped too.
I've ordered most of the other stuff (battery management, DC-DC converter, etc etc) and it's trickling in. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:52 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat swivelectomy |
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Aren’t these like $250 each in qty 4?
That’s $1000 for 150 AH vs 150 for two Autozone batteries , in perspective
_________________ .ssS! |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7404 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat swivelectomy |
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Some decision criterion to choose from:
- Less cost: AutoZone > LiFePo
- More Available power: LiFePo > AutoZone
- Less Weight: LiFePo > AutoZone
- Less Space: LiFePo > AutoZone
- Longer Life Span: LiFePo > AutoZone
It depends what the user values.
Nice work, Sodo. Didn't you post recently that your departure date is imminent? Will this be a road project? _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:21 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat swivelectomy |
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I am curious about the full specs of both the battery cells and the BMS. _________________ Schau in das Buch |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:08 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat swivelectomy |
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Abscate wrote: |
Aren’t these like $250 each in qty 4?
That’s $1000 for 150 AH vs 150 for two Autozone batteries , in perspective
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Missed your pricing note
$500 for the 4, good price. If they do last 10 years in full cycle use that’s very cost competitive with lead acid, for which you would to buy 4 to get that energy delivered _________________ .ssS! |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:50 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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Lead batteries are "over". Even with lead on sale and LiFePo4 at full retail.
At China wholesale, LiFePo4 is a slam dunk (but yes a wad of cash....).
Your bringing the knife fight of trivia to the Atomic bomb of truth.
As the OP, can I request keeping this thread focused
as a technical discussion on FITTING the batteries and the systems below Vanagon driver seat,
avoiding economic comparison to out-dated battery types.
We are at the 5th post, nothing yet on INSTALLATION or integration.
------> into a Vanagon camper.
Onward, to INSTALLATION and integration. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Crooked Designer Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2018 Posts: 308 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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Following as this is definitely something I'm interested in doing in the future.
Would love to know if you're planning on putting the DC charger and BMS in the battery compartment. If so, you will basically be significantly improving usable amps for aux battery without increasing space at all. Probably a weight improvement overall too. Certainly per usable amp.
Any concerns over structural stability with the sheet metal you cut out under the seat rail? _________________ '85 Westy full camper, Subaru 2.5L, 5 speed SubiGears + 5speedbus shifter kit |
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SSWesty Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2008 Posts: 732 Location: Bellevue
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:51 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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This looks really promising, I never swivel my drivers seat. Seems like a perfect fit for those batteries. I'd just need to figure out if the change in seat height would be an issue for me. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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Crooked Designer wrote: |
Any concerns over structural stability with the sheet metal you cut out under the seat rail? |
I hope not.
Cutting it reduces the web strength that keeps the seat rail straight.
Its very thin, bends with my left hand fingers.
Probably shouldn’t push real hard on the seat back?
I’ll stuff the center with foam to prevent pennies from piling up between the terminals.
This foam comes with the cells. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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pbrown Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008 Posts: 443 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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The remaining metal could be reinforced with some steel bar and a MIG welder. I see a couple raised spots. Am thinking angle iron placed over that with a weld bead top and bottom.
You could also get creative on placing electronics on the passenger side under the seat. I know there is a swivel there. Maybe fitting the RMW pull-out drawer there and placing thinner components. A service loop would need to be established so the drawer could be pulled out for service. You would also need a way for wire to go from one seat pedestal to the other. _________________ Patrick Brown
1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7404 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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I have an amp under the driver's seat and crossovers under the passenger seat (just added a door, not the RMW drawer) so this won't work for me unless if I make some changes.
What you are showing is the possibility of using so many small vacant spaces in the van. In front of the glove box. in the back pf the kitchen cabinets, in the basement of the closet, spaces under the van, in front of the taillights (shown in another thread), on the floor of the rear bench seat cabinet (but not consuming 80% of some of the most valuable storage space in the van). _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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Got stuff installed.
The Iota DLS-30 is below the Renogy 60A Dc-Dc charger.
4.6A coming in from solar (@4:30pm)
54.7 amps from the 130A Tribeca alternator. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3786 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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This is quite incredible.
So much packed into one place:
150aH Battery
DC/DC charger (and solar)
Shore charger
BMS
I'm looking to do something similar to this soon. Have you thought about heating mats for cold weather? _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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kguarnotta Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2004 Posts: 1160 Location: Woodstock, NH
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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looks great... can't wait to see more. thanks for sharing. _________________ -Kevin
Lincoln, MA
'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper |
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ProspectiveOwnergon Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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That ALMOST makes me want to drop the coin and lose the swivel. :/ |
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baltik Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2015 Posts: 440
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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At the risk of being a negative Nancy, I think you would have a much safer setup with less potential for arcing/shorts if you just put the cells in the battery box and charger under the seat. I just can’t wrap my head around the advantage of laying it out this way, but I see some potentially catastrophic disadvantages...
I do appreciate you experimenting and continuing to develop this design, just concerned about what happens if something gets jarred loose |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7404 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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I'm liking the idea of fitting these batteries under the truck fridge to keep my amplifier under the seat and free up the aux. battery box for something else like my Victron inverter (long story, specialized use). _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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baltik wrote: |
just concerned about what happens if something gets jarred loose |
Wood blocks separate the terminals.
Foam packing fills the space too.
Thru-bolt with a nut below.
You can easily reach the nut over the tire.
Batteries laid out with more surface area can cool better (or heat better too).
You def need some discipline and the fear of God working with a wrench between those posts.
I shortened the posts 3mm.
Also covered post with two layers of tape.
There are ways.
But I like that its all packed away in an electrical utility closet.
Jim you could put the amp under the passenger seat?
Under the Fridge is where I put a big frying pan, with dinner plates inside it. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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I’m outtatown.
Currently having some trouble with initial cell balancing.
New-install folks should read this before leaving on a maiden LiFePo4 voyage.
If you have a 3.65v power source, balance with that!
Problem is mainly at top-off (in the 99%).
One cell gets over-voltage and it shuts down the charging.
But its 99%, that’s pretty full.
The only problem is its not managing itself, thus I have to “manage” it manually.
So I’ve unplugged my DC-DC charger’s ignition-on wire so no alternator can’t “top off”. I’ll engage the alternator when it goes down a bit.
I can get a full 150Ah in 3 hrs driving.
I need to find a 55watt bulb & balance at camp... _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6316 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: 150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy |
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A word of caution for other people, I read it somewhere else online, you GOTTA balance your cells individually ( exact same voltage) before starting to charge them as a group of cells.
3 out of 4 on my delivery were balanced and matching each other, I`m taking the 4th one that`s a bit higher down with a light bulb, it`s taking forever
With a H3 bulb it barely budged 0.035 Volts in a few hours
I need to be going from 3.335 V to 3.295V in my case. _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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