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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:48 am Post subject: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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With the popularity of LiFePO4, I feel we need a thread to consolidate information.
Currently we have multiple great LiFePO4 threads regarding installation in certain areas. These threads below have a great amount of information regarding LiFePo4
New Record? 120 usable Amp Hours under Driver's seat
150Ah LiFePo4 flat under driver seat + swivelectomy
I wanted to make this thread to target overall discussion regarding LiFePo4.
NOTE: This topic is not about other types of batteries. This is strictly about LiFePo4!
Here are some topic of interests in regards to LiFePo4:
Cold weather charging - heating mats
Building your own system using cells and separate Battery Management Systems VS buying a prebuilt solution that has all this sorted out.
DC-DC alternator charging VS having a battery monitoring system control a relay
Battery monitoring systems
Balancing cells before installation
Deals/sources for A-Grade LiFePo4 cells
Shore charging for LiFePo4
These batteries are a great investment and have gained huge traction in the past 2 years.
Just to kick off this thread, I plan to have my LiFePo4 batteries close to my Chinese diesel heater - to keep them warm in the winter. However you could make the argument that the heater's electrical draw should be able to keep the batteries at a warmer temperature. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Last edited by shagginwagon83 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:56 am; edited 3 times in total |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:49 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Somebody in another thread linked these A-Grade cells at a great price
150aH for $500 from China (or $580 from the US)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316031708.html _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Last edited by shagginwagon83 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:49 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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reserved _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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vwhammer Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: Boulder CO.
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:18 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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As far as heating systems are concerned this guy goes over a system he built.
Link
I don't know if it is in the skill realm of 100% of the people but he does explain the process pretty well albeit a little monotonically.
shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Just to kick off this thread, I plan to have my LiFePo4 batteries close to my Chinese diesel heater - to keep them warm in the winter. However you could make the argument that the heater's electrical draw should be able to keep the batteries at a warmer temperature. |
Simply using lithium is a good way to warm them up before charging.
As long as you have a temp monitor to keep them from charging until they are up to temp then it certainly is possible to that you may not require a purpose built heater.
You might need a pretty good draw on the batteries before they get super warm but generally any draw will start the process.
Obviously, running the heater, which will also be warming the inside of the van where the batteries might be located, will also not hurt. |
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dlb154 Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I bought the Go Westy 50Ah LiFePo4 and need to set up my "user" setting on my charge controller. Has anyone taken the specs on Go Westy's website and successfully setup their controller on the User settings?
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2561 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:52 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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this is my setup using the 150Ah LiFePo4 that will fit in the driver's battery compartment.
6 AWG wires are used to connect the starter, LiFePo4, and Renogy DCC50S
8 AWG wires are used to connect the Accessory Fuse Panel to the LiFePo4
the LiFePo4 is powering the stereo, internal lighting, Dometic CRX-50 fridge, kitchen sink water pump, and internal USB and Anderson PowerPole connections (to power amateur radio transceivers).
the Renogy DCC50S has a voltage sensing relay that will not start power draw from the alternator immediately on engine start. no ACR is required, the DCC50S will charge the LiFePo4 if the starter battery is at the correct voltage. the solar panels will first charge the LiFePo4 and then trickle charge the starter battery. getting stranded with a dead starter battery should not happen unless the starter battery has failed.
this is a compact and robust system and the cost is under $1000.00 for a system using a 200W panel. running the numbers the LiFePo4 can last 96 hours if the ambient temp is under 85F based on a 1.2A hourly draw by the fridge. at 90F, i can squeek out 84 hours before needing to charge the system.
as you can see, this is perfect for long weekend adventures without requiring setting up solar or running the engine. solar in my setup is only needed for longer stationary trips or when power consumption is greater than 1.5A per hour continuous for more than 36 hours... the solar panel can charge the LiFePo4 in the driveway between trips.
the LiFePo4 BMS and DCC50S have temp and voltage protection for the LiFePo4 battery. the battery will not charge at subfreezing (33F and below) temps. i do not plan to use the system at this time in subfreezing temps and can disconnect the system using the two breakers.
this system is over spec'd and can comfortably support the use of an inverter, or the addition of a propex heater. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7472 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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i love it. I'm going LiFePo when I can get 200 ah below the truckfridge. I came across that idea and became irrationally attracted to it. The basement of the Westy closet is another possibility. The spaces under my front seats are occupied and I don't want batteries under the rear bench. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:39 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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jimf909 wrote: |
i love it. I'm going LiFePo when I can get 200 ah below the truckfridge. I came across that idea and became irrationally attracted to it. The basement of the Westy closet is another possibility. The spaces under my front seats are occupied and I don't want batteries under the rear bench. |
Currently my aux battery is under rear bench seat and it kills me wasting that easily accessible room.
I need to drink some beers, read some more lifepo4, and just hit the buy button.
-Dabaron (steve). That's a great setup man. I feel overspecced is under rated for electrical system in these vans.
Luckily I have overbuilt my system to where once I make the conversion to LiFePo4 I don't have to change most of my wiring. Really excited about that.
Do you know if your BMS has a shunt built in? This is BMS I am looking at -
https://overkillsolar.com/product/bms-120a-4s-lifepo4/ _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:46 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Also wanted to note in this thread that GoWesty has a great LiFePo4 solution for a light power user that doesn't want to do their homework! I'd highly recommend this solution over their AGM battery.
Shipping/handling may kill the deal. However myself would like 150-200ah of power in my van.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/electrical/25082/lifepo_aux_battery-50ah _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Last edited by shagginwagon83 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:46 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Currently my aux battery is under rear bench seat and it kills me wasting that easily accessible room.
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Totally agree. While I wouldn’t want to be without the storage capacity I currently have under there, the loss of that space is a huge bummer. I’m stripping out that whole system today and will be installing everything but the Lifepo4 batteries (which I am still waiting on). I’m going with the Renogy DCC50s and the BMS from overkill solar. Stoked. _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:54 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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ledogboy - Super pumped for you and jealous I'm pretty stoked thinking about this upgrade! I really saw a need for a better battery when using my chinese diesel heater.
Do you know if the overkill solar has a shunt built in? I'm looking at the diagrams and where the BMS is inline with the ground I feel like it should. I need to do more research about the overkillsolar. I really like it is programmable and also open source code. Hell he even has his own subreddit for support! _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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kourt Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013 Posts: 1947 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:58 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I'm on my fifth iteration of aux battery setup in my 91 Westy.
Since this is a LiFePO4 dedicated thread, I'll just provide links to the photos of the older SLA batteries:
first iteration, three 55ah SLA batteries in parallel
second and third iterations, one big 200ah SLA battery
Now on to the LiFePO4 stuff. Here's the fourth iteration: one Battle Born 100ah LiFePO4 battery, with Redarc BCDC1240D:
...and now the fifth iteration, two Battle Born 100ah batteries in parallel:
The Redarc is fed by 240 watts of solar on the roof and the alternator.
Why did I go with two Battle Born batteries in parallel? Because I was easily depleting the single battery with my DC power demands (amateur radios, plus comfort things like refrigerator, LED cabin lights, and USB charge ports).
I'm in the middle of a 4500 mile road trip right now and this dual battery setup has been a source of great comfort. I have no capacity anxiety with the dual batteries. On several occasions I have left the van for several days--the last being six days total--with the refrigerator running, with the voltage sitting at 13.3 volts when I depart and when I return. I've never had that confidence with the aux battery system before.
I am convinced the combination of the Redarc and the parallel batteries is what's making this work well.
You can see in the photos that I placed the batteries on their short side, so that the terminals face aft. This is a perfect fit for the rear bench space--no space is wasted vertically in this configuration.
kourt |
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ockyfib Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2012 Posts: 88 Location: Bainbridge Island, Washington
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Hey dlb154,
I'm planning to do the same and replace my std battery under the driver's seat with the GoWesty 50Ah LiFePo4. What charger are you going to be using and does anyone know whether I could just keep using the GoWesty solenoid? I know it charges slowly but that's not usually an issue for us.
Thanks |
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sphet Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2016 Posts: 345 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:47 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Our normal pattern is to camp one night and drive for four hours or more to the next site. Now that we are under provincial lock down, we are spending many days in a single site, so while we really only use the battery for usb charging, cabin light and water pump, I think it's time to consider a second battery.
I would like to use the Renology DCC50S with something like the GoWesty LiFePO4 under the driver's seat. We don't have a DC fridge so our amp hour usage is low. We would only need solar on long-stays, so a portable panel would be the plan. This seems good for my early van where the battery is in the back; I only need to add the charger, battery, fuse box and rewire the kitchen power and cabin light.
What are my options for shore power charging? I imagine I could charge my starter battery, but the Renology would require the alternator signal to draw.
What are other people doing in this situation? _________________ 1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:12 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I like Victron's products a lot. Most have bluetooth that allow you to easily update the devices firmware.
The link I sent is for the 15amp model but you can get a 5 amp model for $80 I believe. Note, with any LiFePo4 shore charging, you should be able to set the voltages per battery. I believe the Victron unit can do that.
I'd recommend downloading the Victron app on your phone and 'demoing' this product. It will simulate the actual product without even buying it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FGGCYKC _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17154 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:17 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I have a Pro Nautic, Pro Mariner installed next to my fresh water tank. It will charge up to 3 batteries. It's hardwired to my shore power outlet. What's nice about this charger is you can actually use your 12 volt accessories while charging. Not all battery chargers support that.
We don't use a lot of power either when camped. I will plug in when its available to extend my propane and the van is always plugged in when it's parked.
No help on the Solar or the LifePo battery. _________________ ☮️ |
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sphet Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2016 Posts: 345 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
I like Victron's products a lot. Most have bluetooth that allow you to easily update the devices firmware.
The link I sent is for the 15amp model but you can get a 5 amp model for $80 I believe. Note, with any LiFePo4 shore charging, you should be able to set the voltages per battery. I believe the Victron unit can do that.
I'd recommend downloading the Victron app on your phone and 'demoing' this product. It will simulate the actual product without even buying it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FGGCYKC |
So you would suggest adding this *in addition* to something like the Renology DC-to-DC MPPT charger? Plug it into the outlet under the sink, and then connect it to the battery, completely bypassing the Renology DC-to-DC connection? Any risk if I forget to unplug my solar while plugging in to shore power? _________________ 1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:25 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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As Mark stated, you need a battery charging and power supply. The Victron unit has both that functionality.
If you had a smart solar controller then I would say you would be fine to use both solar panel and shore charger at same time. Once it gets to set voltage, both should kick off (or rather maintain the battery) _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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sphet Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2016 Posts: 345 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:28 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Thanks Mark and Brandon; I see now it is two problems to solve. I feel I may have gone off topic for the thread so admins can delete it appropriate. _________________ 1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:40 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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You're fine. There might be a better solution that utilizes the Renology DC-to-DC that I'm not aware of. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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