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LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread
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rmcd
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Here is some great info. A must watch.

He discusses most of this issues discussed above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U4ZfQ_IToI
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
she doesn't have the 120ah batteries in stock for the couple times I've asked her.


I got my ALiExpress 120's with no problems, I don't know much about who the us broker was, but it was quick, and easy. I'd have to mention that I got them to fit a specific location, and that location was my personal Fools Gold. Also, I've already put my house system to the test a few times. I am now far far past 120AH being comfortable, and soon I will be looking for a different pack/dimensions (install location), and a TON more AH's. To boot, I still have and use my stock 3 way fridge, so I already know that just my CDH, a few accessories, etc. maybe a fan, or TV for a movie and that 120Ah's is gone in roughly 36 hours. Got into a sticky situation mid winter that made my whole layout seem daft. I'd not wish that on another traveler. [Under Driver seat was not what I expected]
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ProspectiveOwnergon
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

ok...dumb questions time and involved with installation while I await my 120ah LiFePo4 batteries to arrive from US warehouse..... I'm trying to figure out what cables to keep, which to go and how to get that starter hooked up to my renogy DCC30S.

I'm realizing this might be due to wiring changing for 1990 Westy and looking at wasserboxer in general.

On the starter batter there are 3 cables to the terminal. The main starter feed, a solid 6awg red and a 6awg red/white (which seems to be AC related? No mention of red/white wire in Bentley). When I look in the aux battery box there is no corresponding wire to this box even though the Bentley shows there should be (97.225 shows left 6.0 Red going to relay slot 87). But I believe the wire comes from the main fuse panel to this area but the Bentley wiring diagraming is generally gibberish to me, so can't find which fuse that might be coming from the main fuse panel. Let me verify if I have everything right.

Ideas?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1. Install a brand new 8awg red stranded wire from House battery positive, run over to auxiliary box by passing ANY OTHER WIRE. (will now have 3 red wires coming from main battery lug)

2. Hook up this red wire to the appropriate Renogy DCC30S terminal

3. Hook aux battery up to new Bluesea 6 panel fuse block

4. Run red wire from camper fuse panel that's for sink/water pump (rear fuse) into Bluesea 6 panel fuse block
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


4. Run new 14awg wire from Bluesea to Fuse #3 so radio/map/etc runs off aux battery no matter what

5. Cut out all the wires from cut-off relay. Cap off lower right as likely still hot from fuse panel when engine is on? None of these blue, red/blk, grey wires matter any longer?
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6. Enjoy powering internal camper components without touching the starter battery!
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Pretty sure that white and red wire is for automatics, going to the shifter no? I never traced it but the size and color reminds me of that.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

The brown stuff on the connector at the relay is the first step of a fire something is wrong here.

One guess would be a poor crimp at the twinned high current red wires or poor workmanship of joining, which generates resistance, loss, heat, fire.

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[/quote]
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Pretty sure that white and red wire is for automatics, going to the shifter no? I never traced it but the size and color reminds me of that.


This is a manual, so not automatic unless they put it there by default.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
The brown stuff on the connector at the relay is the first step of a fire something is wrong here.

One guess would be a poor crimp at the twinned high current red wires or poor workmanship of joining, which generates resistance, loss, heat, fire.

[/quote]

Yes, I know...that's why I'm trying to figure the wiring out and prep for new aux setup. Hence my questions above about how to get wires ready...
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

That red/white wire is for power to the radiator fan high speed relay in many 86+ models that came from the factory with the larger radiator fan motor.

Don't cut any unused factory wires, just tape off the ends for future use.

Mark


ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Pretty sure that white and red wire is for automatics, going to the shifter no? I never traced it but the size and color reminds me of that.


This is a manual, so not automatic unless they put it there by default.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
That red/white wire is for power to the radiator fan high speed relay in many 86+ models that came from the factory with the larger radiator fan motor.

Don't cut any unused factory wires, just tape off the ends for future use.

Mark


ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Pretty sure that white and red wire is for automatics, going to the shifter no? I never traced it but the size and color reminds me of that.


This is a manual, so not automatic unless they put it there by default.


That fan wire should be replaced with the biggest and most direct route.

This thread and the small car ac thread talk about melting rad fan circuits.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9608949&highlight=#9608949
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
That red/white wire is for power to the radiator fan high speed relay in many 86+ models that came from the factory with the larger radiator fan motor.

Don't cut any unused factory wires, just tape off the ends for future use.

Mark


ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Pretty sure that white and red wire is for automatics, going to the shifter no? I never traced it but the size and color reminds me of that.


This is a manual, so not automatic unless they put it there by default.

Thanks Mark! Guessing the solid red is what goes to the main fuse and then there is a fuse off the the cut-off relay. Wonder what else might be on that fuse so it can be repurposed for other power.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Searching this thread, I see two posts regarding amateur radio and Lifepo batteries

Kourt:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9405102&highlight=amateur+radio#9405102

dabaron:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9403609&highlight=amateur+radio#9403609

@ amateur radio users running 100+ Watt rigs off Lifepo Lithium batteries in your van:

In general, during TX, does the Lithium battery maintain a high enough voltage output to rig for longer period of time vs same with an SLA deep cycle battery? i.e. do all functions on the rig continue to work properly even when battery or batteries are drawn down by 50% ?

Thanks,

Neil.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:

@ amateur radio users running 100+ Watt rigs off Lifepo Lithium batteries in your van:

In general, during TX, does the Lithium battery maintain a high enough voltage output to rig for longer period of time vs same with an SLA deep cycle battery? i.e. do all functions on the rig continue to work properly even when battery or batteries are drawn down by 50% ?


i'm doing CW mostly, and my Icom 756proII at 100w has no issue at 35% LiFePo remaining. i'm bringing the rig along this coming weekend and will operate a bunch of phone on 20 and 40. that should be a good test. i'll report back.

maybe Kourt has the answer?
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Thanks dabaron. As you know, many portable operators use Lithium batteries. Typically on lower power rigs though. QSO's with them indicate they're quite happy with that type of battery.

I do wonder if an hour or more of TX duty cycle of ~ 15 Amps then a "charge" back up via solar power during RX, unduly shortens SLA deep cycle battery life. i.e. maybe a Li battery, no solar, is better.

Some operators have found that their rig might behave erratically (maybe mostly on phone mode) when voltage supply is lower than spec'd. e.g. 13.8 volts. Without derailing this thread, I've experienced a bit of that but can work around it. e.g. not engage speech compressor, ignore the "dead" ALC meter. Wink

Neil.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

rmcd wrote:
crazyvwvanman wrote:
That red/white wire is for power to the radiator fan high speed relay in many 86+ models that came from the factory with the larger radiator fan motor.

Don't cut any unused factory wires, just tape off the ends for future use.

Mark


ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Pretty sure that white and red wire is for automatics, going to the shifter no? I never traced it but the size and color reminds me of that.


This is a manual, so not automatic unless they put it there by default.


That fan wire should be replaced with the biggest and most direct route.

This thread and the small car ac thread talk about melting rad fan circuits.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9608949&highlight=#9608949


Oh, rad! Laughing

I did the same thing retroffiting a 3 speed fan system into my 85 Westy without knowing, now a diesel with battery in the engine bay, so I pulled a 8AWG wire for that relay to the old WBX battery location that now houses a fuse box from a Jetta MK4.

Thanks for the info!
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

I looked back 10 pages and didn't see mention of these $500 100 ah batteries on amazon. If one is choosing to go with the pre-built battery/bms such as those available from Battleborn ($950) or Renogy ($800) what are the drawbacks to going with a cheapo $500 battery?

A year or two ago, it seemed the $500 battery was a scam but today they have hundreds of decent reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lithium+battery+100ah&a...8jim81h8_e

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Received my 272 ah LiFePO4 batteries about a month ago. Finally getting around to doing the top balance...

All cells were at 3.300 when received.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Can't get power to the sink...I have 12v at red wire coming from aux Fuse panel, but neither of the red leads coming from aux battery box power the pump/faucet. Can someone snap a pic on how you got power to your sink/pump? 1990 camper and figure it has to be one of the two wires coming from the aux battery or oem battery cut-off

At a complete loss. Installed new sureflo and connected two wires from faucet to the two wires previous faucet was connected to... get nothing...
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
Can't get power to the sink...I have 12v at red wire coming from aux Fuse panel, but neither of the red leads coming from aux battery box power the pump/faucet. Can someone snap a pic on how you got power to your sink/pump? 1990 camper and figure it has to be one of the two wires coming from the aux battery or oem battery cut-off

At a complete loss. Installed new sureflo and connected two wires from faucet to the two wires previous faucet was connected to... get nothing...


What does the wiring diagram for the Shureflo say to do?
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
ProspectiveOwnergon wrote:
Can't get power to the sink...I have 12v at red wire coming from aux Fuse panel, but neither of the red leads coming from aux battery box power the pump/faucet. Can someone snap a pic on how you got power to your sink/pump? 1990 camper and figure it has to be one of the two wires coming from the aux battery or oem battery cut-off

At a complete loss. Installed new sureflo and connected two wires from faucet to the two wires previous faucet was connected to... get nothing...


What does the wiring diagram for the Shureflo say to do?


Got it! Water pump had blue wire ripped out so couldn't complete the ground loop...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:
Crooked Designer wrote:
Wondering about others who have taken full auxiliary battery systems and converted to LifePo4 systems.

I don't want to muddy up this thread, so wondering if that is worthy of a new thread to focus on what you have already running and need to swap out/add to get to a safe and well functioning LiFePO4 aux system. I've read (and learned) a ton on this thread, but there still seem to be lots of questions about what is and isn't necessary anymore when converting setups. I guess that thread would be more around the other devices vs. the actual cells.

Or should I just keep that conversation here?


I think this thread is the right place to discuss "conversion" from lead-acid to LiFePo4. Months ago, after this thread twigged my interest in LiFePo4 batteries, I stumbled onto this resource which I found to be very useful as it contains all the info you need and none you don't need, even though the text is almost ten years old:

http://nordkyndesign.com/category/marine-engineering/electrical/lithium-battery-systems/



Thanks Howesight. This is all very helpful.

In looking to convert, I'm trying to make this easy. Right now, I have 200w (sometimes 300 with aux panel added) running to 40 amp MPPT and then to the aux battery. Not changing that. I have two runs to blade fuse panels for running interior electronics (one under the sink and one behind the glove box) and I'm not changing that either (with the exception of removing the low voltage disconnect.)

The things I'm considering swapping out for this conversion from SLA to LiFePo4.

Blue Sea ACR - This I'm pretty sure is no longer necessary if I install a DC to DC charger (as everyone seems to recommend to spare your alternator and provide the right charge input) So that seems like a straight-up swap. The only thing I'm bummed about is not being able to charge my starter battery from solar, so if there are any suggestions for how to do that, I'd love to hear it. I'm looking at Renogy 40 amp DC to DC charger

ProSport Dual bank 20A shore power charger - I'm ditching this as everything I've read says it needs to be hooked up to 2 batteries and they need to be the same chemistry. It is also huge and massive overkill for my starter battery anyway. I'm looking at replacing this with Victron IP22 or IP67 and only having it hooked up to aux battery. Any thoughts on which of these two IP22 is 30 amp and IP67 is 25 amp. May also get a small trickle charger for starter battery for storage in winter.

I have a low voltage disconnect that seems to be redundant to the BMS in the battery, so will take that out.

Usage is mainly truck fridge, stereo, propex, sink, 12v charging devices (mainly phones), and interior lights (all LED). I'm hoping to squeeze 100ah behind driver's seat.

Any other recommendations? Hoping this is fairly straight forward. I have a very comprehensive diagram of my system now if you want to see how it is set up to recommend changes.

Also, I seem to remember there being a signal wire from the alternator already under the driver's seat. I think this is used in the GoWesty aux battery kit (and probably others) Can anyone tell me what that wire looks like? I think I'll need it for the DC to DC charger.
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