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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3262 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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SteveM: Nice find on the battery shock protector. From what I have read and observed, clamping the cells together as a unit (with suitable solid plastic spacers) keeps the bus bars from exerting forces on the cell terminals. There are also longevity benefits in battery longevity. The shock protector, if used, should not go between cells, but between the assembled, clamped battery and the vehicle.
Hey FXR, so sorry to see deliveries from China remain problematic.
To Prospective Ownergon, I am sad to see you received bloated cells. I agree with posters above - - they likely suffered some damage. If you decide to keep them instead of returning them, then be gentle with your clamping. Mine arrived "unbloated", checked with a straightedge. Please keep us all posted on how those bloated cells ultimately function.
Dobryan: Good to see your 280 AH cells are about to go into service. You will love the "set and forget" beauty of this capacity. Having said that, nerds like me spend a lot of time looking at the BMS app on the i-phone. Mrs. Howesight says I am obsessed. I just grin sheepishly.
Is that Kungber power supply reasonably good quality? I expect I should re-balance once or twice a year, so I'll have to get a power supply at some point. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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gtinseth Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2019 Posts: 76 Location: NW California
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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fxr wrote: |
My problem is that my seller (Alex Chen, Shenzhen Basen Technology Co., Ltd.) doesn't reply to my 'chat' requests except with boiler-plate 'what product do you want?' type of auto-replies. No tracking number, nothing helpful in the slightest. Not happy, even more so because Mrs fxr is extremely unhappy with the situation, seeing as how this is now the second time cells have gone AWOL, and I get an earful every day asking where the batteries are. |
I can't figure out how to share the alibaba contact with you, but I've chatted with Emily Peng from Basen. Maybe you can track her down? |
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ProspectiveOwnergon Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Howesight wrote: |
To Prospective Ownergon, I am sad to see you received bloated cells. I agree with posters above - - they likely suffered some damage. If you decide to keep them instead of returning them, then be gentle with your clamping. Mine arrived "unbloated", checked with a straightedge. Please keep us all posted on how those bloated cells ultimately function.
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I posted on DIYSolarForum and they said they looked pretty good so getting mixed reviews... they say to discharge each battery down and then clamp and top balance...not my favorite idea
I've been irked at the seller as they didn't send busbars/screws/bolts and they told me to go get em myself....especially for grade A batteries |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:36 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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You know?
Just read through most of this thread.
My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada……
Way above my pay grade and simply put, I’m not interested in learning it.
The technology is interesting but it is like the Wild West of batteries right now.
Shady providers, varying quality, etc.
You guys go and blaze the trail in your enthusiasm, I’ll come follow the path you make after it is well groomed and the navigational signs are up.
I’m still Coming to terms with those modern AGM batteries!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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There is no shame to throw in the towel and but it does not take much more than a few hours on the internet and YouTube to understand what they are saying. It's really not that difficult. Especially when you find out a 100Ah Lithium has twice [or more] the capacity of a 100Ah AGM.
I'm sold on the benefits and right now, I'm looking for a good supplier and a good price for a set. This is where my Dad would chime in "You get what you pay for" |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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gtinseth wrote: |
fxr wrote: |
My problem is that my seller (Alex Chen, Shenzhen Basen Technology Co., Ltd.) doesn't reply to my 'chat' requests except with boiler-plate 'what product do you want?' type of auto-replies. No tracking number, nothing helpful in the slightest. Not happy, even more so because Mrs fxr is extremely unhappy with the situation, seeing as how this is now the second time cells have gone AWOL, and I get an earful every day asking where the batteries are. |
I can't figure out how to share the alibaba contact with you, but I've chatted with Emily Peng from Basen. Maybe you can track her down? |
Well wouldn't you know, yesterday I get a reply (via the refund dispute route!) with a Fedex tracking number and the news that it would be delivered by the end of day. Fedex have stood by their previous poor performance and haven't delivered yet, 36 hours after it went out for final delivery. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3786 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I am going to be 3d printing an enclosure for the CATL 310aH cells. Someone on DIY solar sent me the 3d model. I will print it out. However I don't know if it will achieve the clamping force, but it looks really sweet. I will post pics if it is worthy! _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3262 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:46 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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djkeev wrote: |
You know?
Just read through most of this thread.
My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada……
Way above my pay grade and simply put, I’m not interested in learning it.
The technology is interesting but it is like the Wild West of batteries right now.
Shady providers, varying quality, etc.
You guys go and blaze the trail in your enthusiasm, I’ll come follow the path you make after it is well groomed and the navigational signs are up.
I’m still Coming to terms with those modern AGM batteries!
Dave |
Hi Dave:
I know it all seems so confusing, but remember that those on this thread are trying to take advantage of a really inexpensive alternative to the well-known, reliable products. You really can't go wrong with Battleborn batteries. There are a couple other brands also of comparable quality with slightly better prices. One is SOK battery who sell a 200AH unit for $1,029 USD ( see this link: https://www.sokbattery.com/products/12v-206ah-lifepo4-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-pack)
For fast and effective charging of your LiFePo4 battery while driving, the DC to DC charger is a must. I got the REDARC unit because I could not find a single negative review, unlike some competitors with a lower price.
But for me to get the 280 AH of power I now have from Battleborn, I would have to spend over $3,750 CAD and they would take up 3 times the space of my current setup. Going for 280 AH was connected with the fact we can't rely on solar in my tree-covered and rainy part of the world. In the sunbelt, 280 AH is not required. I am no longer bringing my solar panels on trips, but if I go to a sunny part of the world for an extended time with no driving while there, it will then make sense. I am happy with this "set and forget" system and never running out of power for my fridge.
I paid $1,200 CAD, all in, for my cells and BMS, purchasing from a local supplier here in the Vancouver area who warranteed his cells. I was lucky this fellow was here. If not, I would have had the same quality-control issues and non-responsive vendor issue folks above have identified. Oh, and I bought threaded rod. I had plywood sitting around. Since my vendor top-balanced my cells as part of his sales and service, I didn't even have to buy a power supply. (I will soon, though, for annual maintenance.)
So, it's the ultimate set-and-forget power supply I wanted and I now have it. No solar panels in the Westy, no hydrometer, and no VOM required. Drive, arrive, crack open the cold beer and grill the steak. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3786 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I want to point out my 150aH under the seat lifepo4 battery has been 'set and forget' after top balancing properly. I check on it even now and then to make sure it behaves correctly.
I enjoy learning about this chemistry and also getting 300aH for roughly $500. Battleborn is $2,800 for 280aH! So to have that level of storage at that price is something worth doing the research.
Even if we get half the life compared to name brand Battle born, it's still a hell of a deal!
Also I want to point out that the 50aH GoWesty solution is not terrible also!
I absolutely love having an abundance of power. Don't have to worry about conserving power nor even deploy my portable solar panel for weekend trips! _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3786 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Great job Dave!
Interesting to see the overkill solar bms now has the feet for a ring terminal. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Vanuber Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020 Posts: 410 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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djkeev wrote: |
My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada.... |
I have to agree with Dave here. Every time I glance this thread I feel better and better about my Battleborn. Though I appreciate the ingenuity, it's just not worth the headache to save a few hundred bucks IMO. That said, I don't need 280Ah either.
fxr wrote: |
Well wouldn't you know, yesterday I get a reply (via the refund dispute route!) with a Fedex tracking number and the news that it would be delivered by the end of day. Fedex have stood by their previous poor performance and haven't delivered yet, 36 hours after it went out for final delivery. |
fxr - did they ever arrive? _________________ '85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Vanuber wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada.... |
I have to agree with Dave here. Every time I glance this thread I feel better and better about my Battleborn. Though I appreciate the ingenuity, it's just not worth the headache to save a few hundred bucks IMO. That said, I don't need 280Ah either. |
Whereas we can see a need for 300Ah, and money is tight. Horses for courses and all that.
Quote: |
fxr wrote: |
Well wouldn't you know, yesterday I get a reply (via the refund dispute route!) with a Fedex tracking number and the news that it would be delivered by the end of day. Fedex have stood by their previous poor performance and haven't delivered yet, 36 hours after it went out for final delivery. |
fxr - did they ever arrive? |
They arrived today - 71 days after ordering. All would have been well if the supplier had sent me the tracking number when it was first available, on May 3rd, instead of waiting until I put in for a refund request! Of course Fedex took their sweet time moving it from depot to depot.
The cells look to be in good condition, no discernible swelling, all reading 3.32V. These '310'Ah ones have 300Ah on their labels, but I'm not fussed about that! After top-balancing I'll be doing a very similar build to Dave's, above. I already have the cutting boards and tape to hand. It'll be a squeeze getting them where I want them in the van - the cubby hole in front of the water tank. It's the tank filler pipe that will need to be replaced with something that takes less space on its bends.
But I'm in the middle of another project sprung on me by Mrs fxr - a brand new 30,000 BTU dual-split air conditioner found on Nextdoor for $800. Fitting that in the house right now, before the next heatwave this w/e. At least that'll help me be patient with the top-balancing. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Vanuber Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020 Posts: 410 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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fxr wrote: |
Whereas we can see a need for 300Ah, and money is tight. Horses for courses and all that. |
Yes, to each their own
fxr wrote: |
They arrived today - 71 days after ordering. |
Good to hear!! _________________ '85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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jouko Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2013 Posts: 27 Location: Fernie, BC
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Just over three months after I placed an order with “Amy” through AliBaba, without any warning, my 280Ah cells showed up today. These are the “New Version Genuine Grade A EVE 3.2V 280AH Lifepo4 Battery”, hoping they are as good as the peeps at DIYSolar forums say…
Only had a chance to quickly check the voltages, hoping to have time to get deeper into this in the next few days. Exciting times! _________________ "Clifford" 1987 Westfalia 1.8T
"Rusty" 1987 911 Targa |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:35 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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And... I've finally managed to get my 300Ah setup installed and working. The only thing I still need to do is to fit a switch between the PV and the Renogy charger, to stop the PV from topping-off the battery when the van is between trips.
Mrs fxr is delighted that she can now use an Instant Pot.
Circuit:
The far end will be hard up against a cupboard wall, so no extra plywood there. No room for it anyway.
Powering the 3qt Instant Pot quite happily.
_________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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pnwkayaker Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2008 Posts: 918 Location: Sammamish, WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Great installation! I see that some folks are starting to use the small cabinet by the water tank to store the aux battery, that'll be a NO-NO at our household since we use it to store all snack/drinks/dog food/etc that we may need while in the road.
Do you have a link to your 6-way switch and breaker unit? Am I correct that you don't have a separate fuse-box? I like the ability to turn ON/OFF segments as needed.
_________________ 87 Syncro Westy EJ25 ("Tardis")
Seattle Meetup at Marymoor (link)
A collection of Simple Useful Mods (SUM) (link) |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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It's this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H259CR2
I disabled the big square LEDs and did some changes to their original wiring to suit my needs. e.g. the 'inverter on' switch is connected inside the inverter in parallel with the existing 'output on' switch, no connections to the 12V stuff at all. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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