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LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

SteveM: Nice find on the battery shock protector. From what I have read and observed, clamping the cells together as a unit (with suitable solid plastic spacers) keeps the bus bars from exerting forces on the cell terminals. There are also longevity benefits in battery longevity. The shock protector, if used, should not go between cells, but between the assembled, clamped battery and the vehicle.

Hey FXR, so sorry to see deliveries from China remain problematic.

To Prospective Ownergon, I am sad to see you received bloated cells. I agree with posters above - - they likely suffered some damage. If you decide to keep them instead of returning them, then be gentle with your clamping. Mine arrived "unbloated", checked with a straightedge. Please keep us all posted on how those bloated cells ultimately function.

Dobryan: Good to see your 280 AH cells are about to go into service. You will love the "set and forget" beauty of this capacity. Having said that, nerds like me spend a lot of time looking at the BMS app on the i-phone. Mrs. Howesight says I am obsessed. I just grin sheepishly.

Is that Kungber power supply reasonably good quality? I expect I should re-balance once or twice a year, so I'll have to get a power supply at some point.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
My problem is that my seller (Alex Chen, Shenzhen Basen Technology Co., Ltd.) doesn't reply to my 'chat' requests except with boiler-plate 'what product do you want?' type of auto-replies. No tracking number, nothing helpful in the slightest. Not happy, even more so because Mrs fxr is extremely unhappy with the situation, seeing as how this is now the second time cells have gone AWOL, and I get an earful every day asking where the batteries are. Evil or Very Mad


I can't figure out how to share the alibaba contact with you, but I've chatted with Emily Peng from Basen. Maybe you can track her down?
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ProspectiveOwnergon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:


To Prospective Ownergon, I am sad to see you received bloated cells. I agree with posters above - - they likely suffered some damage. If you decide to keep them instead of returning them, then be gentle with your clamping. Mine arrived "unbloated", checked with a straightedge. Please keep us all posted on how those bloated cells ultimately function.


I posted on DIYSolarForum and they said they looked pretty good so getting mixed reviews... they say to discharge each battery down and then clamp and top balance...not my favorite idea

I've been irked at the seller as they didn't send busbars/screws/bolts and they told me to go get em myself....especially for grade A batteries
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

You know?

Just read through most of this thread.

My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada……

Way above my pay grade and simply put, I’m not interested in learning it.

The technology is interesting but it is like the Wild West of batteries right now.
Shady providers, varying quality, etc.

You guys go and blaze the trail in your enthusiasm, I’ll come follow the path you make after it is well groomed and the navigational signs are up.

I’m still Coming to terms with those modern AGM batteries!

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

There is no shame to throw in the towel and but it does not take much more than a few hours on the internet and YouTube to understand what they are saying. It's really not that difficult. Especially when you find out a 100Ah Lithium has twice [or more] the capacity of a 100Ah AGM.

I'm sold on the benefits and right now, I'm looking for a good supplier and a good price for a set. This is where my Dad would chime in "You get what you pay for"
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fxr
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

gtinseth wrote:
fxr wrote:
My problem is that my seller (Alex Chen, Shenzhen Basen Technology Co., Ltd.) doesn't reply to my 'chat' requests except with boiler-plate 'what product do you want?' type of auto-replies. No tracking number, nothing helpful in the slightest. Not happy, even more so because Mrs fxr is extremely unhappy with the situation, seeing as how this is now the second time cells have gone AWOL, and I get an earful every day asking where the batteries are. Evil or Very Mad


I can't figure out how to share the alibaba contact with you, but I've chatted with Emily Peng from Basen. Maybe you can track her down?

Well wouldn't you know, yesterday I get a reply (via the refund dispute route!) with a Fedex tracking number and the news that it would be delivered by the end of day. Fedex have stood by their previous poor performance and haven't delivered yet, 36 hours after it went out for final delivery.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

FedEx is a locally owned franchise for delivery.
Some are great!
Some are absolutely horrible!

Plus the different colored logos have meanings too.

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

I am going to be 3d printing an enclosure for the CATL 310aH cells. Someone on DIY solar sent me the 3d model. I will print it out. However I don't know if it will achieve the clamping force, but it looks really sweet. I will post pics if it is worthy!
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
You know?

Just read through most of this thread.

My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada……

Way above my pay grade and simply put, I’m not interested in learning it.

The technology is interesting but it is like the Wild West of batteries right now.
Shady providers, varying quality, etc.

You guys go and blaze the trail in your enthusiasm, I’ll come follow the path you make after it is well groomed and the navigational signs are up.

I’m still Coming to terms with those modern AGM batteries!

Dave


Hi Dave:

I know it all seems so confusing, but remember that those on this thread are trying to take advantage of a really inexpensive alternative to the well-known, reliable products. You really can't go wrong with Battleborn batteries. There are a couple other brands also of comparable quality with slightly better prices. One is SOK battery who sell a 200AH unit for $1,029 USD ( see this link: https://www.sokbattery.com/products/12v-206ah-lifepo4-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-pack)

For fast and effective charging of your LiFePo4 battery while driving, the DC to DC charger is a must. I got the REDARC unit because I could not find a single negative review, unlike some competitors with a lower price.

But for me to get the 280 AH of power I now have from Battleborn, I would have to spend over $3,750 CAD and they would take up 3 times the space of my current setup. Going for 280 AH was connected with the fact we can't rely on solar in my tree-covered and rainy part of the world. In the sunbelt, 280 AH is not required. I am no longer bringing my solar panels on trips, but if I go to a sunny part of the world for an extended time with no driving while there, it will then make sense. I am happy with this "set and forget" system and never running out of power for my fridge.

I paid $1,200 CAD, all in, for my cells and BMS, purchasing from a local supplier here in the Vancouver area who warranteed his cells. I was lucky this fellow was here. If not, I would have had the same quality-control issues and non-responsive vendor issue folks above have identified. Oh, and I bought threaded rod. I had plywood sitting around. Since my vendor top-balanced my cells as part of his sales and service, I didn't even have to buy a power supply. (I will soon, though, for annual maintenance.)

So, it's the ultimate set-and-forget power supply I wanted and I now have it. No solar panels in the Westy, no hydrometer, and no VOM required. Drive, arrive, crack open the cold beer and grill the steak.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

I want to point out my 150aH under the seat lifepo4 battery has been 'set and forget' after top balancing properly. I check on it even now and then to make sure it behaves correctly.

I enjoy learning about this chemistry and also getting 300aH for roughly $500. Battleborn is $2,800 for 280aH! So to have that level of storage at that price is something worth doing the research.

Even if we get half the life compared to name brand Battle born, it's still a hell of a deal!

Also I want to point out that the 50aH GoWesty solution is not terrible also!

I absolutely love having an abundance of power. Don't have to worry about conserving power nor even deploy my portable solar panel for weekend trips!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

The LiFePO4 battery build is progressing nicely.

I used thin cutting boards between the cells so they could not make any contact (the blue tape they come with is very thin and needs to be insulated to keep the cell body from making contact if the blue tape is damaged.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FY6RD46/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Fiberglass packing tape was used to hold the cells together.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I used 1/4" cutting boards to create a frame around the battery. This does not really provide compression but will allow me to use the battery as one unit and it provides a durable cover for the battery to prevent damage. (I am really not a fan of having individual cells just waiting to get damaged. It makes me very nervous.)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W4VFJ4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the Overkill BMS completes the setup.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by dobryan on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Great job Dave!

Interesting to see the overkill solar bms now has the feet for a ring terminal.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:

Interesting to see the overkill solar bms now has the feet for a ring terminal.


That is one option you can choose. I like it a lot better than the presoldered wires.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada....


I have to agree with Dave here. Every time I glance this thread I feel better and better about my Battleborn. Though I appreciate the ingenuity, it's just not worth the headache to save a few hundred bucks IMO. That said, I don't need 280Ah either.

fxr wrote:
Well wouldn't you know, yesterday I get a reply (via the refund dispute route!) with a Fedex tracking number and the news that it would be delivered by the end of day. Fedex have stood by their previous poor performance and haven't delivered yet, 36 hours after it went out for final delivery.


fxr - did they ever arrive?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Vanuber wrote:
djkeev wrote:
My conclusion?
These batteries are just another thing to worry about going bad.
Clamping, cushioning, swelling, torquing, charge rate, controllers, yada yada yada....


I have to agree with Dave here. Every time I glance this thread I feel better and better about my Battleborn. Though I appreciate the ingenuity, it's just not worth the headache to save a few hundred bucks IMO. That said, I don't need 280Ah either.
Whereas we can see a need for 300Ah, and money is tight. Wink Horses for courses and all that. Very Happy
Quote:


fxr wrote:
Well wouldn't you know, yesterday I get a reply (via the refund dispute route!) with a Fedex tracking number and the news that it would be delivered by the end of day. Fedex have stood by their previous poor performance and haven't delivered yet, 36 hours after it went out for final delivery.


fxr - did they ever arrive?

They arrived today - 71 days after ordering. All would have been well if the supplier had sent me the tracking number when it was first available, on May 3rd, instead of waiting until I put in for a refund request! Of course Fedex took their sweet time moving it from depot to depot. Sad

The cells look to be in good condition, no discernible swelling, all reading 3.32V. These '310'Ah ones have 300Ah on their labels, but I'm not fussed about that! After top-balancing I'll be doing a very similar build to Dave's, above. I already have the cutting boards and tape to hand. It'll be a squeeze getting them where I want them in the van - the cubby hole in front of the water tank. It's the tank filler pipe that will need to be replaced with something that takes less space on its bends.

But I'm in the middle of another project sprung on me by Mrs fxr - a brand new 30,000 BTU dual-split air conditioner found on Nextdoor for $800. Fitting that in the house right now, before the next heatwave this w/e. Wink At least that'll help me be patient with the top-balancing. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
Whereas we can see a need for 300Ah, and money is tight. Wink Horses for courses and all that. Very Happy


Yes, to each their own Very Happy

fxr wrote:

They arrived today - 71 days after ordering.


Good to hear!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Just over three months after I placed an order with “Amy” through AliBaba, without any warning, my 280Ah cells showed up today. These are the “New Version Genuine Grade A EVE 3.2V 280AH Lifepo4 Battery”, hoping they are as good as the peeps at DIYSolar forums say…

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Only had a chance to quickly check the voltages, hoping to have time to get deeper into this in the next few days. Exciting times!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

And... I've finally managed to get my 300Ah setup installed and working. Smile The only thing I still need to do is to fit a switch between the PV and the Renogy charger, to stop the PV from topping-off the battery when the van is between trips.

Mrs fxr is delighted that she can now use an Instant Pot. Smile

Circuit:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The far end will be hard up against a cupboard wall, so no extra plywood there. No room for it anyway. Wink
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Powering the 3qt Instant Pot quite happily. Smile
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Great installation! I see that some folks are starting to use the small cabinet by the water tank to store the aux battery, that'll be a NO-NO at our household since we use it to store all snack/drinks/dog food/etc that we may need while in the road.

Do you have a link to your 6-way switch and breaker unit? Am I correct that you don't have a separate fuse-box? I like the ability to turn ON/OFF segments as needed.


fxr wrote:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread Reply with quote

It's this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H259CR2

I disabled the big square LEDs and did some changes to their original wiring to suit my needs. e.g. the 'inverter on' switch is connected inside the inverter in parallel with the existing 'output on' switch, no connections to the 12V stuff at all.
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