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Vnyd Dog
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2015
Posts: 384
Location: Napa
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 Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I've followed this thread but been too intimidated/busy to fully untangle. I've got the same deal. Two deep-cycles running my truck fridge and a bunch of aux accessories based off a Pro Sport/GoWesty aux batter system. Mine are also getting to be 5 years old so I'm def interested in how I can also replace with Li batteries.
/Edit/So my question then is, does anyone know if a Prosport 20 can safely charge the batteries "as-is"? I studied the GoWesty 50ah page. Interestingly their site says it's compatible with the ProSport I already have onboard. There is ZERO mention of LiFePO in the official literature for the Prosport. You get a discussion of lead acid, AGM, or GEL, and that's it.
Searching around the BattleBorn site i located:
You can use any standard charger, solar or wind charge controller to charge our LiFePO4 deep cycle battery.
There are some chargers and controllers that are programmable to ensure full usage out of your battery, but most will have an AGM setting which normally bulk charges about 14.4 volts and float at 13.6 volts. These levels are great for your Battle Born battery.
I'm not an electrician and have no desire to build my own battery system or sit around camp staring at my bluetooth monitoring system performance. I'm totally not trying to ding anyone that's into it or that needs these systems for non-recreational purposes. I get it, gear is cool. Data and monitoring is probably vitally important to "heavy users" etc. Sounds like I need to stick with batteries that have their own BMS which equals $$$$
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Here I am a year later quoting myself because on my 4th of July camping trip
I learned that my now 6-year-old lead acid batteries won’t run the fridge overnight anymore. Because they now need to be replaced and are part of the GW house setup on a Prosport 12, can anyone opine on any off the shelf solutions for switching to an LP4 or is it basically a ground up rebuild? I have since learned the Prosport model I have won’t play nice with the LP4s so I’m assuming I’m looking at new batteries plus some sort of new charger/combiner with shore power etc. Any pointers appreciated but it does appear this thread has become more of a “roll your own” for cells. I’m just looking for the Ron Popeil version. Happy 4th campers!
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'87 Westy 1.8T Conversion, Orignal Owner, European Delivery @ Westfalia factory in Weidenbrueck.
The Story:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713391&highlight=life |
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rmcd
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010
Posts: 1348
Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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| shagginwagon83 wrote: |
| I am going to be 3d printing an enclosure for the CATL 310aH cells. Someone on DIY solar sent me the 3d model. I will print it out. However I don't know if it will achieve the clamping force, but it looks really sweet. I will post pics if it is worthy! |
Please let us know how it goes.
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VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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HEATWAVE UPDATE:
Mrs. Howesight and I spent a week during the heatwave visiting with friends in what is normally one of the hottest parts of BC, on Shuswap Lake, not far from Kamloops. Driving through Kamloops with my digital AC vent-temp guage in the AC vent, I wondered how hot it was outside. I poked the business end of that gauge out of my window opened just a crack and - - it read 115.5 Fahrenheit. No wonder my rad fan stayed on medium speed for hours to cool my AC condenser!
The location we parked (mostly in the shade) was much cooler - - only 105F 
As things turned out, my TF65 fridge basically ran full-time in the day with all windows open, the Shadyboy awming deployed, all three pop-top windows open, etc. At night, with 95F to 100F temps, the fridge cycled off for a few seconds at a time.
Needless to say, the electrical consumption was phenomenal! I had previously estimated being able to stay in one spot (without alternator charging or solar panel charging) for over a week, based on historical electrical consumption. In this heatwave, all those calculations went out the window.
I brought a borrowed Whynter 65 litre top-loader fridge for other family members, intending to run that also, from my 280Ah LiFePo4 battery, so for that reason alone, I decided to bring all 300 watts of my solar panels. Turns out I needed that solar power and ended up plugging in the Whynter to our host's cabin's 120VAC, running only my TF-65 from the LiFePo4 battery.
I decided to see how long I could run the TF-65 from my 280Ah. I got to 2 days before I decided to add the solar charging. When the wildfire smoke was not killing my solar generation, I was able to get 220 watts from solar and keep up with the draws and also re-charge a bit day-over-day. Shade in the afternoons (I only have a 50 foot cable) limited my charging to the morning sun, but the fast-charging nature of LiFePo4 cells meant this was enough.
So, any time the weather will include over 90F temperatures without our usual West Coast evening cooling, I will be schlepping one or more of my solar panels along. Thankfully, they all fit in my luggage rack.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2315
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Thanks for the heat-wave update. My 100W suitcase PV is now perched on the garage roof, powering all our home internet gear plus kitchen lights along with the old 120Ah L-A battery - so I'll have to consider whether to bring that PV down and take it with us to supplement the 100W that's on the luggage rack. That might only be necessary if we stay in one place for more than a couple of days AND the weather is scorching. Gotta keep that beer cold!!!
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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pnwkayaker
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2008
Posts: 918
Location: Sammamish, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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| Howesight wrote: |
HEATWAVE UPDATE:
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Thanks for your comment/update, this matches (and explains) what we also experienced during the last heatwave - in our case, our GoWesty 50 Ah died after 1.5 days of powering a TF-49 in the middle of the heatwave (even with a 100 W solar panel attached to it).
Currently looking at options, but it looks I’ll be upgrading the battery to at least 170 Ah or 200 Ah, and adding another 100 W solar panel.
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87 Syncro Westy EJ25 ("Tardis")
Seattle Meetup at Marymoor (link)
A collection of Simple Useful Mods (SUM) (link) |
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7455
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Thanks for the update Howesight.
It's interesting how a few variables (higher then normal ambient temps, parking in the shade to escape the heat, fire smoke, etc.) can throw a system out of equilibrium. Smokey days like the one below (look for the orange dot of the sun at 2:00) will require running the alternator or adding a generator to keep the beer cold.
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- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3794
Location: VA/TN
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Those who are installing their batteries next to water tank - where are you getting ground for your battery?
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2315
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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| shagginwagon83 wrote: |
| Those who are installing their batteries next to water tank - where are you getting ground for your battery? |
There's a grounding post on the floor where the shore power 120V line is grounded. I used some 6 gauge wire to extend that to a new 6-way ground busbar which all the rest of the set-up connects to.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:20 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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I've been following along with this thread not so much for LifePo4 batteries for my vans but for an electric boat project I've been working on.
I ordered 16 100ah cells from AliExpress. After three months, they showed up, all tested look good and tested fine. I built this box to secure them with 1/4" marine plywood then wrapped it in fiberglass. As you can see, the BMS is not yet hooked up, I've used it once carefully watching the battery level to make sure it didn't get too low. I am running them all in series to make a 48v 100ah battery, it weighs about 75 lbs. It is amazing how much energy is in this box, to get this with lead-acid batteries it would weigh about 280lbs- way too much for my little boat.
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16494
Location: Brookeville, MD
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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pnwkayaker
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2008
Posts: 918
Location: Sammamish, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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When I fist saw this picture (without reading the text) I thought you were going to populate all the storage space underneath the rear bench with batteries.
My first reaction was "now somebody has decided to stop playing games and go big", and my second reaction was "wait, you can go bigger, those are not 280 Ah cells!". Imagine having 1120 Ah in your Vanagon 
Just curious, do you need a special BMS to handle these many cells ?
_________________
87 Syncro Westy EJ25 ("Tardis")
Seattle Meetup at Marymoor (link)
A collection of Simple Useful Mods (SUM) (link)
Last edited by pnwkayaker on Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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| pnwkayaker wrote: |
When I fist saw this picture (without reading the text) I thought you were going to populate all the storage space underneath the rear bench with batteries.
My first reaction was "now somebody has decided to stop playing games and go big", and my second reaction was "wait, you can go bigger, those are not 280 Ah cells!". Imagine having 1320 Ah in your Vanagon
Just curious, do you need a special BMS to handle these many cells ?
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Yes, you need a BMS that has a wire for each cell. The box is 23" long 6" wide and 9" deep. |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7455
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Yippeeeee!
Overnight van a/c is here!
More importantly, do you have a photo of the boat or a thread on the internets somewhere? I'd love to learn more about that project.
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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mikemtnbike
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Joined: March 26, 2015
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Location: North Carolina
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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ProspectiveOwnergon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2020
Posts: 211
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Away we go to top balancing my 120ah pack! I am applying light clamped pressure as per the datasheets, these do swell up to 3mm each based on SOC. Basically this chemistry does breath a small amount. All cells were at 3.293, so HOPING charge isn't too long. Some charts show this at around 60-70 SOC, but LiFePo4 is so flat in SOC curves.
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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| xoo00oox wrote: |
I've been following along with this thread not so much for LifePo4 batteries for my vans but for an electric boat project I've been working on.
I ordered 16 100ah cells from AliExpress. After three months, they showed up, all tested look good and tested fine. I built this box to secure them with 1/4" marine plywood then wrapped it in fiberglass. As you can see, the BMS is not yet hooked up, I've used it once carefully watching the battery level to make sure it didn't get too low. I am running them all in series to make a 48v 100ah battery, it weighs about 75 lbs. It is amazing how much energy is in this box, to get this with lead-acid batteries it would weigh about 280lbs- way too much for my little boat.
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Hey Andrew:
You have been so helpful to so many people here on the Samba that I want to return the favour. If you have not placed some kind of additional insulator between each of your LiFePo4 cells, then you really ought to do so. Your (very cool) e-boat might see rough waters which will tend to make the cells abrade against each other and cause electrical shorts. I used super-thin plastic cutting boards between each cell as seen in the pic below:
In the worst case scenario, you can have a catastrophic failure like Alika did:
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2315
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Those super-thin boards are cheapo at Bed Bath and Beyond.
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread |
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Howesight-thanks for the tips. I do agree with you, it would be better to have a thin plastic insulator between each cell. I’m planning on getting sheets of ABS plastic from McMaster. I really just put this box together quickly because I wanted something to hold them while I tested them.
FXR- thanks for the tip but there are no BBB around me. |
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