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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
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Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:17 am Post subject: T4 ATF oil change |
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Nice simple 01P ATF drain and fill at 100k while watching Chelsea get thumped by Blades yesterday.
Short warmup drive
Put car in ramps, idled
Removed drain plug, H5 hex bit
Small drip
Removed 5 M6 screws and dropped pan, drained about 3 liters ATF
Very small amount of gum on magnet, good to see
Mount new gasket meyle and filter (FCP)
Install pan.
3 liters ATF added by hose from from top , Pentosin ATF-1 FCP
Leveled car, added another 500 ml until level tube dripped
Install plug
Install fill plug
Good for another 50k!
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jmciii
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Joined: November 30, 2019
Posts: 61
Location: KY
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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This gives confidence even though I have chosen for the shop to do this tomorrow with a trans cooler install.
When you mention ramps, are these only the front? I have to assume yes but wanted to envision it.
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2002 EV MV Weekender Westfalia |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
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Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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How do you drain the TC?
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:06 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Just by idling , it’s drain and fill strategy which I do every couple of years. At 50k , I drop and change the filter. It’s the third filter In this one, as it’s low miles
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Abscate
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:53 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change, bolt spec 12 Nm for the 01P |
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Forgot to add specs on pan bolts, M6 hex cap screws
I found 12 Nm to be spec, which is light, easy to overdo even with a 6 inch ratchet.
The torque is light because the pan does not crush the gasket, it just snugs it up. The tighTening force is taken up by the inserts inside the pan gasket, which are supplied new with the gasket
You are going steel I\into aluminum here, so don’t gorilla it and make your day bad
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Abscate
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:32 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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I had Not noticed degradation, but the shifting is silky smooth over the Vermont hills
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swsl
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Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Just by idling , it’s drain and fill strategy which I do every couple of years. At 50k , I drop and change the filter. It’s the third filter In this one, as it’s low miles |
Meaning, the TC fluid gets swapped out over various refills, right? Since the change is so much more frequent than factory, getting even half of it 5 times is far better than once every ....rebuild ?
You didn't mention warming it up to the specified temp...?
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zi
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Joined: January 27, 2020
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| Would this be the same process for the 03 Eurovan ? |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:10 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| zi wrote: |
| Would this be the same process for the 03 Eurovan ? |
Yes the 2002 and 2003 are identical.
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zi
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| Do you know how to add the ATF oil ? Like just to top it up where I put it in or do I have to disassemble everything? I'm having trouble finding anything online. Thank you |
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swsl
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Topping it off is not so easy as some vehicles because:
1) Normally, unless one has been installed, there is no dipstick tube for checking level.
2) The procedure for getting the level correct is to fill at a specified temperature (using a long hose or the added dipstick tube ) until it overflows.
Still, it's no big deal once you've done it. Best recommendation is to simply replace the fluid (Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic or the more expensive VW product ) every other oil change. Or thereabouts. Every 20 k. Drop the pan check and clean it, replace the filter, fill to correct level (see link) and ignore the fluid for another 20K.
There is a good rundown on the procedure here: http://www.rialtainfo.com/vw/transmission.htm#fluid
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ocelotpotpie
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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I absolutely cannot recommend pushing oil changes in the very hot running VR6 / Eurovan engine bay combo to as long as 10k.
Oil changes should be 5,000 miles at most. Oil is cheap. Oil changes are cheap insurance. Engines are not cheap.  |
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swsl
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| ocelotpotpie wrote: |
I absolutely cannot recommend pushing oil changes in the very hot running VR6 / Eurovan engine bay combo to as long as 10k.
Oil changes should be 5,000 miles at most. Oil is cheap. Oil changes are cheap insurance. Engines are not cheap. |
Not recommending a 10k oil change interval, just repeating advice to do a transmission fluid change interval at every other oil change. But that can be fudged up to every 20K.
But it should be added that running your tranny hot will abuse even synthetic fluid and require an earlier change. I am ok going 20K because I watch my tranny (with air cooler) running 140-190 and that's a huge difference in fluid life over one ranging 190-260.
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zi
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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Thank you swsl,
I will check that out.
Reason is, while driving highway, my Eurovan suddenly had a huge oil leak of some kind (underbelly, oily residue coating whole back door, could see oil on my spare tire) but my mechanic couldn't find the leak and doesnt know what the oily residue is?? They told me to drive it again so I just want to grab extra ATF , engine oil in case. Don't think I can figure it out otherwise...have no idea how to fill up the ATF though because lack of dipstick so sounds like if something happens again I gotta tow.... I am still trying to figure this out. Thank you for your advice!
Also, How do I check the temperature my ATF is running at? I do have one of those additional ATF coolers installed. Sorry I am a total amateur |
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swsl
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| zi wrote: |
....my Eurovan suddenly had a huge oil leak of some kind (underbelly, oily residue coating whole back door, could see oil on my spare tire)
Also, How do I check the temperature my ATF is running at? I do have one of those additional ATF coolers installed. Sorry I am a total amateur |
Ah, tough one. If you are up for it, I would take the belly pan off and drive it a little bit, then look around the bottom around the engine/transmission.
I kinda think it's more likely oil. The oiil level is/was correct?
Consider this: there is a place where the oil pan, one side of it mates and seals against the transmission case. Odd. A leak there kinda looks like a transmission leak. It must be gasketed correctly with a good instant gasket sealer,.. Mine had been sealed with some inferior caulking and when I changed my oil to something thinner, it started leaking a good bit. I was on the road, had a similar experience and took it to a mechanic who pulled the pan and put in a better gasket material. I watched, it was really needed. You might just ask your mechanic to look for that side of the oil pan/sump area and if pulling the pan, not a bad idea to check the oil pump, clean the sump , check that it looks good. My oil pump also had a missing or rotted gasket and was not giving 100%.
We are pretty far off-topic here. Oh well.
Many EV owners people use a little vehicle monitoring device called a scan-gauge II connected to the OBDII (vehicle computer port) set to watch transmission temperature. They are pretty cool, but a bit flaky. Very glad to have one.
https://www.scangauge.com/products/scangauge-ii/
If your cooler is correctly sized (the one my van came with wasn't) and all is working well, then you might safely assume that it is running cool. But a gauge is cheap insurance. It's good to watch both the engine and transmission temps the computer is seeing.
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Abscate
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:56 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| ocelotpotpie wrote: |
I absolutely cannot recommend pushing oil changes in the very hot running VR6 / Eurovan engine bay combo to as long as 10k.
Oil changes should be 5,000 miles at most. Oil is cheap. Oil changes are cheap insurance. Engines are not cheap. |
I have Blackstone data which outweighs internet speculation by a large factor. If you want to know the oil change interval for your car And your driving conditions , the test costs $20.
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EuroTec
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:19 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| At my service shop we do 5K on everything, 2K on odler carbureted vehicles. Cheap insurance. In newer cars it does more than just lubricate. It also serves hydraulic functions in variable vale timing mechanisms. |
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swsl
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| ocelotpotpie wrote: |
I absolutely cannot recommend pushing oil changes in the very hot running VR6 / Eurovan engine bay combo to as long as 10k.
Oil changes should be 5,000 miles at most. Oil is cheap. Oil changes are cheap insurance. Engines are not cheap. |
I have Blackstone data which outweighs internet speculation by a large factor. If you want to know the oil change interval for your car And your driving conditions , the test costs $20. |
This. Throwing out small versus larger numbers is fudging just the same. To say that you must protect your engine does not actually give any evidence that a 5K number is more protective than 7K or 10 K, nor that it's just as good as a 2K interval. Perhaps motors changed every 2K will last an extra 45 (or 450 or 45K) miles before their compression drops below x threshold. Assuming nothing else happens first.
I really wonder how many of the gazillion vehicles out there have truly had their life shortened due to longer oil change intervals. That is, within reason. Obviously there are ones out there that are driven into the ground with no attention.
Thoughts like "cheap insurance" have validity, but how did you decide 5K and not every 2K? Or every week? Ah, I know, it's all based on what we were advised many years ago in a different era and people have started from there and mentally fudged their way to some conclusion using modern oil. And the primary fudge factor variable is either "more better" (up to an arbitrary point) or "c'mon, they do fine in real life with this interval"
Or " I tested my vehicle in my typical conditions and the lubricant still looked good at x miles, then was degraded at x."
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ocelotpotpie
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:26 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| I have Blackstone data which outweighs internet speculation by a large factor. If you want to know the oil change interval for your car And your driving conditions , the test costs $20. |
I'll agree with this - if you're testing the oil periodically and altering your oil change interval accordingly.
But most folks aren't doing Blackstone or other oil analysis and often buying used vans from folks who haven't kept up with the maintenance. So changing oil and filter often is cheap insurance.
Oil isn't so expensive that pushing to 8-10k vs 5k oil change interval is going to break the bank. |
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ocelotpotpie
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:32 am Post subject: Re: T4 ATF oil change |
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| swsl wrote: |
| Thoughts like "cheap insurance" have validity, but how did you decide 5K and not every 2K? Or every week? Ah, I know, it's all based on what we were advised many years ago in a different era and people have started from there and mentally fudged their way to some conclusion using modern oil. And the primary fudge factor variable is either "more better" (up to an arbitrary point) or "c'mon, they do fine in real life with this interval" |
I'm a huge fan of using research, evidence, and analysis to support a decision. But on the internet we often can't even get folks to use a proper scan tool or take a few extra minutes to research something to know the best path forward.
So defaulting to quality oil and frequent changes is a shortcut for "Take care of your engine. If you can't be bothered to do the research to know it in and out, then change your oil often."
Lots of Eurovan engines I've had apart have had poor oil change intervals, lots of gunking, and I'm convinced timing chain gear failure is due to heat and poor oil quality/intervals. You don't see these issues as much on other non-Eurovan VR6 powered vehicles.
Doing an oil analysis and catering your oil and your oil change intervals to your engine and needs is great. You need to do an analysis every so often as the engine ages and wears and your uses change as well. Everyone should do this, but most people won't.
All of that said: this thread is about ATF changes. Which is another thing that is sorely overlooked on Eurovans and VWs in general. Changing the ATF at regular intervals is a must for a long lasting 098/01P. Adding an external cooler is highly recommended as well. |
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