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guitarsam120
Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2020
Posts: 1
Location: California
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 Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:37 pm Post subject: Issue with flasher Relay |
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| Hello! New too VW and I just picked up a 68 beetle to fix up. I. Pretty good with electronics but am stumped. It is acting like my flasher relay doesn't work but I have replaced it with 3 different ones at his point. Some 3 prong and some 2. I'm trying to figure out why the relay isn't clicking. The light on the dash comes on but nothing is clicking. I've tested the circuit by turning the turn signal to the right or left and neglecting the flasher unit completely. (Directly connecting the 12v power coming from emergency light switch to the set of turn signal wires. I can turn the turn signals on and they are bright. Obviously they don't flash. I tried some generic relays of both the electronic and thermal type with no luck. If anybody has some advice please let me know! Thank you in advance! |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher Relay |
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| Flashers only work if you have enough load on them. If you have HD flashers like they sell for towing then try some std duty. Normal flashers don't work with LEDs either. There are quite a few yt vids about setting up turn signal and emergency flasher circuits. |
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Jimbug57
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 817
Location: Mid Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher Relay |
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From Speedy Jim -
Here's a link to Speedy Jims website with lots of great info.
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/elec.htm
Hope this Helps.
_________________
Repeat after me "I am smarter than metal!" |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher Relay |
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| guitarsam120 wrote: |
| I've tested the circuit by turning the turn signal to the right or left and neglecting the flasher unit completely. (Directly connecting the 12v power coming from emergency light switch to the set of turn signal wires. I can turn the turn signals on and they are bright. Obviously they don't flash. |
This is a good test. It confirms your wires and bulbs are good. You have pretty much narrowed it down to the flasher relay.
| guitarsam120 wrote: |
| It is acting like my flasher relay doesn't work but I have replaced it with 3 different ones at his point. Some 3 prong and some 2. I'm trying to figure out why the relay isn't clicking. The light on the dash comes on but nothing is clicking... I tried some generic relays of both the electronic and thermal type with no luck. |
Not all flasher relays will work in the VW turn signal arrangement. VW never used a 2-prong flasher relay. It has to do with how the turn signal indicator bulb in the speedometer is wired. It is not a 5th corner lamp. It is not typical and many thermal flasher relays will likely fail. You need a flasher relay that is designed to work in the VW circuit. Look thru your 3-prong flasher relays and see if any are labeled with terminal #s = 31, 49(+), 49a. These are the circuit numbers used in VW (and other European) turn signal circuits. Flasher relays with terminals numbered X, +, L and P are more generic relays and often will not work in the VW circuit. If you need to buy a new flasher relay look for the EP-35 relay common at most FLAPS. These do work. And if it is marked LED they will work with LED bulbs in the corners. Some of the early EP-35 flasher relays were not LED compatible.
The above diagram is very good and is a simplified but accurate diagram showing how the E-Flasher switch and turn signal switch are interconnected to share the single flasher relay.
You can see the top part of the E-Flasher switch is a simple SPDT switch which determines which of the two power source (30 = constant 12v; 15 = ignition switched 12v) will power the flasher relay.
At the bottom of the flasher relay you can see the pulsing 49a output from the flasher relay is shorted to both the L and R circuits when the E-Flasher switch is turned ON. This allows the flasher relay to power all four corner lamps when the E-Flasher switch is turned ON.
Note that in the above diagram it is clear that the 49a terminal on the flasher relay is the OUTPUT that powers the corner lamps with a pulsing 12v+. What is missing from the above pic is how the turn signal indicator lamp is wired. Imagine a black wire running from the #15 (ignition switched) fuse to a 2W/12v bulb. From that bulb a blue/red wire run to the #49a terminal of the flasher relay. Yes, this 2W bulb sits between a 12v+ source from the ignition and a 12v+ source from the flasher relay OUTPUT! You can confirm this by looking at any '70-later VW/Bentley wiring diagram where 3-prong flasher relays are used. The three indicator lamps at the bottom of the speedometer share a common 12v+ (black) wire from the fuse box (or fuel gauge) and the blue/red turn indicator lamp wire always runs to the 49a terminal of the flasher relay. The same terminal that powers the corner lamps.
What this means for the flasher relay is it will see 12v+ coming IN on the #49a OUTPUT when the turn signal switch and E-Flasher switch are OFF. Also, between pulses of 12v+ out the #49a the flasher relay will see 12v+ coming IN on the #49a from the turn indicator lamp. For this reason, some generic flasher relays will not work properly. There is nothing to fix. Some flasher relays will not work with 12v+ coming IN on the OUTPUT terminal. You need a flasher relay that is designed to work in such a circuit.
TEST: Disconnect the blue/red turn indicator lamp from the flasher relay. With the ignition ON, ground the end of the wire and confirm the turn indicator lamp turns ON. This confirms your turn indicator lamp is powered correctly from the ignition switch.
With the speedometer turn indicator lamp disconnected (remove the bulb if needed), test the turn signals and E-Flashers. All should work as expected and flash using any flasher relay. Without the turn indicator lamp connected the turn signal/E-Flasher circuits are very simple. This shows that the flasher relay can work thru the corner lamps as expected in a typical turn signal system.
Reinstall the turn indicator lamp and retest. If the test fails (turn indicator remains ON constant and there is no flash at the corners), it proves your flasher relay is incompatible or failing. Replace it with the proper 3-prong (VW compatible) flasher relay,
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher Relay |
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This guy has some good videos on yt.
Here is a vid where he explains how the flashers work and makes a circuit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42vi97RTzzs |
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