Mighty-Limes '63 Käfer

[mighty-lime]

Hello TheSamba People,

I'm embarking on my 4th Bug, and probably my Keeper Bug.

Its pretty solid, looks like it's had some resto work done already.
The head lining is pretty terrible, not because of age, but because someone didn't know what they were doing!
The front was dropped by adjusters, and the engine is a single port & carb 1600 (so I'm told), with a decent punch and a deep sump.

I was going down the fairly traditional route of resto-mod with a reasonable front drop, BRM Wheels and the Type4 motor.
I actually bought the motor before the bug, this is stripped and cleaned and now postponed till the chassis is worthy of it.

I even committed to CSP front brakes, 2" narrow beam, springs, roll bar and Camber Comp on the rear.
I rebuilt the knuckles and did a bunch of powder coating. None of which I fitted, and all of which I now have to liquidate

Which Brings me to... The thing that was bothering me was the rear suspension and what to do about it.
I knew it would need to be better and had initially set my sights on trailing arms from the super beetle.
But then I got really massive scope creep.

[mighty-lime]

Initially thinking that superbeetle trailing link sus would be good enough with link/king front. To resolving that double A-arm rear would be very acceptable, to all in A-arm front and rear

Last week I really started on this proper, with the idea of 'just' fitting the kits and the late model wide 5 CSP brake kits, transaxle upgrade and get it back on the road..... Well I got into can-o-worms mode.

I have pan sections on the way to repair a few 'issues'...

[Rome]

Nice looking Beetle, and welcome to theSamba!

You have ambitious ideas about upgrading the suspension with those radical parts. Have you thought about swapping the entire chassis for a later one from a Standard Beetle, that has the independant rear suspension (IRS)? Look for 1969 or later. A chassis swap is straight-forward, mostly direct bolt-on. The only welding is to raise the body mounts in the rear wheelwells approx. 1.5" because the frame comes up higher on the IRS'. The only complication could be that the chassis# stamped in the chassis now will be different from the chassis# of the body- a discrepancy in the registration. And you won't be able to keep your 5-bolt BRM wheels unless you buy special front discs and rear drums that are drilled for that pattern. Then again, there might be some 4-bolt wheels out there that appeal to you so that you won't mind not using the BRMs.

Benefit of the IRS chassis is excellent roadholding from the rear suspension design. The front balljoint beam can use a set of Karmann Ghia disc brakes, which is a direct bolt-on as long as you also get the Ghia spindles. Add some HD front and rear swaybars, a pair of caster shims for the front beam lower tube, stainless braided brake hoses; and your Beetle will handle like a go-kart. Also much easier to swap transmissions if you want to experiment with the 2 different final drive ratios that were fitted over the years to IRS.

You could keep your original '63 chassis for when you "might" sell the car.

[mighty-lime]

Hi Rome, Thanks

Yeah, that's what I was thinking initially the trailing link (IRS) suspension has to be a huge upgrade from the swing axle! Controlled camber vs uncontrolled camber, I know which one I'd prefer. I was going to get the bracket and jig setup to convert the chassis over.

By the way, I've taken to calling the what is known as IRS set up as Trailing Link. I've got a bunch of friends who are not VW-nuts that are interested in what I'm upto. I've found calling the CV jointed setup an IRS confusing for them. Both swing axle and trialing link are IRS by definition as they aren't live axles and what happens to one hub doesn't affect the second hub. Granted I'm being OCD, but I'll try to keep that to a minimum

So I went for the Imohr A-Arm setup which uses the CV jointed (IRS) parts. I was going to look for a CV hub'd transaxle, but upon reading TheSamba I found that I can apply a new diff, side plates etc and mod my trans to CV style. nice Ricardo at Imohr has been very helpful and I'm absolutely loving their kits, the construction and design is very impressive. That's not to say I wont be improving a few things along the way.

Before Frame Head

After

front mock up

As of today, I'm waiting for a quote to get the chassis sand blasted.

[FredH17]

Lovely color on the bug !

Looks pretty solid from the outside.

[mighty-lime]

Thanks, yeah its pretty solid, I don't think its a Wisconsin car due to the lack of holes

We really like the color too, unfortunately I don't know what it is. I will have to figure out a close match at some point.

I added some brackets to the rear torsion housings to support the front of the suspension cradle. I'm using a Thermal Arc 95s TiG welder, it can also Stick if required.

[InDaWeeds67]

Interested in following along. If you don't mind, what suspension kit is that?

[mighty-lime]

It’s IMohr from Brazil

https://imohr.com.br/en/products/1

[InDaWeeds67]

Nice, I look forward to following your build setup.

[dodgerodder]

Very cool build, I’ll definitely follow

Wow that’s a TON of suspension stuff they shipped!!
_________________
My 66’ build thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699235

[mighty-lime]

Just attached the front bracket. You can also see the lower two holes, left and right in the Frame Head Bottom Panel. Most of the load in FHBP is fore/aft and left/right. The up/down load is the diagonal component to the top bracket. You have a triangle from the top to the bottom of the frame horn, then out to the bolt hole, and back to the top again. Also the connection in box section from the front plane of the carrier to the back plane also resists twist and vertical movement.
In short, it’s so tied together that the assembly is quite stiff.

[mighty-lime]

I got the chassis done over the last couple of weeks
Borrowed a MiG because the TiG wasn’t cutting it.

I ended up grafting the seat frames from the original pan due to the bad fitment and build of the ones that we’re attached to the pan halves.

It’s finished in urethane semi black

[mighty-lime]

Started building the rear

I will be modifying/adding gussets to the strut bar, the one that’s joined the original shock towers. I’d like to see it stiffened up. I think the kit for super beetles has a stiffer looking link, this one looks less stiff.

I can’t add the uprights till I’ve mod’d them for the CSP brake kit. It’s going to be more involved than other installations due to the CSP kit using a small rear disc which moves the caliper mount inside of the upright. It will look really nice when done, but it’s a lot more work.

[dodgerodder]

You’re making a ton of progress, pan looks great!!

Is the front suspension narrower than stock width?
_________________
My 66’ build thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699235

[Chickensoup]

very nice sir
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[mighty-lime]

thanks guys

The Hub-to-Hub distance change is something I am concerned with, but believe it to be the same as stock.
I forgot to measure the stock width before I tore into it. I can publish the width when I have it together, but I'm pretty sure its about stock.

I do know I will not be containing the 205/50/17 tires, they should be about flush, or the tire wall will maybe a little bit out of the fender. The rear I will probably go with 225/50/17 to actually fill the fender, bugs being 1" wider at the back n'all that...

[bad91teg]

never seen anything like your set up . wow . very impressive ! cant wait for the next update

[mighty-lime]

I worked on the front and rear uprights this week, they needed modifications to accept the CSP brake calipers.

Machined a recess to accept the caliper bracket, the CSP kit uses a small rear disc so the caliper mounts closer to the center.

The bracket spliced into the upright. I cut the bracket on a 2D mill then pressed the tube in to the bracket. Then I TiG’d It on place.

The caliper hanging from the bolts (bolts inserted backwards for display)

You can see the bracket added to the front upright

The front without discs mounted and without steering rack, I need access for fitting the brake lines. You can also see the sound deadening I added, I used Noico Red over Noico Black 80mil.

A change to the kit was the addition of 4 21mm spacers to mount the front beam bolts. It allows the increase of bolt load without distortion of the carrier to greatly increase the stiffness of the assembly.
You can see the aluminum spacers between the frame head and front panel.

[dodgerodder]

Very cool set up, looking great!

It really should make a huge improvement in ride & handling.

What kind of brakes is their suspension built to work with?
_________________
My 66’ build thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699235

[mighty-lime]

It’s a guess, but I think the front would be original VW bug rotors with original calipers. The rear is more flexible, the give you a mounting pad, but no bracket. So on the rear you make your own bracket and weld it to the pad. The intention probably is to use the front rotor on the back and then adapt what ever caliper you want to use. I didn’t realize the CSP rotor is a small diameter, and that made it more challenging.