Bedding procedure for Disc Brakes

[BIGMIKEY]

For those that have done a Disc Brake conversion, could you share your bedding procedure? I searched and apparently nobody bothered to post any details. Also please list what calipers you used and what type of pads. Thanks.

Mike T
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BIGMIKEY

Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=

1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.

[68IHscout]

[viiking]

Disc brakes don't need bedding in! After 50 miles of sedate driving you will have removed the glaze off the disc and the brakes will be fine. Indeed a couple of hard stops after that will help remove the glaze even more. When they are brand new, the pads take a bit longer to stop, but not dramatically so.

My car has the original VW discs (1968 Euro beetle RHD) factory standard.

ATE discs with single pin standard (asbestos) pads. I think "metal" pads just wear the discs away too quickly. Later model discs came with two pins to hold the pads.

After market set-ups are fine. It's only a very light car so you get a bit of a shock of how small the brakes are compared to modern day cars.
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[Bama Dave]

I presume you mean BLEEDING procedure on a Type 1 Beetle. Probably get many opinions and some doomsday pontification from others. No real magic, just patience.

Here’s how I do it. I install everything. No bench bleeding or anything else. Once all connections are good, I fill the reservoir. I pump the pedal a bunch just to get some fluid moving. Then I open both sides rear bleeder valves and let them sit open a few hours (gravity works nicely). Put a container under each to catch fluid, if/when it drips. Then, with an assistant, I bleed the right rear, then left rear, then the right front, then left. Assistant pumps and holds the pedal, then I open the valve briefly and close. When the valve is open, the pedal will go all the way down. Repeat that about 15 times each corner and it should be good. Recheck each corner in the same order after all are done. Have to watch the reservoir levels throughout and top off accordingly. I have done this every time and it has worked every time. Your results may vary.
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David Richerson

1970 Beetle
1971 Super
1972 Baja

[Dan the workingstiff]

[viiking]

DOH!

I took his wording literally meaning BEDDING, not thinking BLEEDING. Spell check anyone?

Maybe it wasn't bleeding obvious to me.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[68IHscout]

[VW_Jimbo]

I use what I was taught at one of the big brake educational sit downs. Similar to this webpage from Wagner. They may have been the one!


“An effective burnish cycle to seat the friction materials into the opposing rotor and drum surfaces requires approximately 200 stops. The 200 stops are consistent with the burnish procedure outlined in the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards FMVSS 105 and FMVSS 135. 200 stops may not be practical for many repair shops. Therefore, we recommend the following burnish procedure:

Make approximately 20 “Complete Stops” from 30-mph
- OR –

20 “Slow-Downs” from 50-mph to 20-mph with light to moderate pedal pressure
NO PANIC STOPS
Allow at least 30 seconds between brake applications for the brake pads or shoes to cool down
It is critical to follow cool down procedures to avoid damaging NAO, Ceramic and Semi-Met friction material as well as the rotor/drum
No high speed stops and/or braking under heavy loads that could result in glazed or otherwise damaged linings
Using these guidelines, the friction materials will have conformed to the surface of the rotors and drums for improved stopping performance. In addition, the thermal conditioning of the friction materials during this process will increase the stability of braking effectiveness over a greater range of temperatures compared to when they were first installed. It’s a good practice for the repair shops to communicate with their customers that their technicians have conditioned the friction and rotors and that the customers should continue this process by avoiding aggressive braking for the next couple of days. Good communication of this information will be helpful and prevent comebacks.“

https://www.wagnerbrake.com/technical/technical-tips/break-in.html
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[BIGMIKEY]

I drive a 1973 Standard beetle. I recently installed disc brakes from a 1974 Karmann Ghia. Rebuilt Girling Calipers and Centric metallic pads. I was interested in the bedding in procedure that people used. Interesting to see that apparenly noone has ever heard of it. No, not bleeding. I did search before posting. No results at all.

VW_Jimbo wins the Cupie Doll.

Mike T

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BIGMIKEY

Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=

1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.

[rayjay]

I wonder if the brake pad manufacturer has recommendations on their website ? I'm surprised there was no info in the box. When I was involved in the SCCA all the brake manufacturers included detailed instructions in the box.

[BIGMIKEY]

I did find recommendations at Centric and Brembo websites. The procedures differed somewhat from each other but were generally similar.

https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedia/fd8de72f-7d67...2018_1.pdf

http://www.formuladynamics.com/brembobedin.php

Mike T
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BIGMIKEY

Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=

1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.

[challomoner]

New discs and pads on mine have 7k miles on them now. Zero bedding procedure other than normal driving. They stop great, don't squeal so I don't know how I could have improved upon that.

[viiking]

[doug bugg]

I'm going to bump this thread hoping to come up with a definitive(?) way of bedding brakes, if that's possible.

I installed an AC disc brake conversion kit on my '68 bug over the winter. I've only put about 25 miles on it since then and there is a shrill squeaking on both sides under light to moderate braking. I triple-checked parts and install to make sure everything is correct and it is. I even sprayed both sides of the shims with Permatex disc brake quiet.

(I do realize that having put so few miles on it that it's a little early to be worrying about any squeaking, but it's SO obnoxious.)

I started doing some research on possible brake noise and came across the bedding procedure(s). I've been working on my own cars for decades and had never heard of this, man do I feel dumb!

Looking at five different sites, I've come up with five different ways of bedding! I even found one saying it wasn't necessary with disc brakes!

Soooooo any input would be appreciated!

[Tim Donahoe]

When I first installed my Empi front disc conversion on my 1974 Super Beetle, the squeal was something awful as I approached stop lights and signs. Not when slowing at faster speeds, however. Soft pads, I was told, and after a few hundred miles on the car, the squeal went away. That was about nine years ago, and the brakes still work fine. Every once in a while, I get a slight squeal at slow speeds at stop signs, but nothing like I first encountered.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

25 miles is nothing! Go for a drive. Like 40 miles there and then 40 back, and get the car up to speed for a duration of time. It is the heat cycle that gets these parts to wear (punny, supposed to be where) they need to be! But you have to be careful! Hot new brakes are not as efficient as bedded brakes. And sometimes you get a soft, spongy pedal for a little while, so longer stops are mandated!

Hope that helps!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[viiking]

Find a quiet road.
Get up to 60mph and brake reasonably hard (but not lock up).
Repeat half a dozen times.
Go for a drive and see if the squeal had diminished.
Repeat if necessary!
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[viiking]

Find a quiet road.
Get up to 60mph and brake reasonably hard (but not lock up).
Repeat half a dozen times.
Go for a drive and see if the squeal had diminished.
Repeat if necessary!
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[volksworld]

"Bedding in" was the buzzword back in the days when disc brakes were a new thing and primarily used for racing...the problem at the time was that the friction material when heated drastically off-gassed the solvents used in the glues that held all the asbestos fibers together...so if you put on a new set of pads and barreled full bore into the first turn and got on the brakes the pads basically hydroplaned on the layer of gases coming out of them and the car wouldnt stop....so bedding in was a series of moderate stops that got the pads just hot enough to get the solvents to boil off ahead of time ....it has never really been an issue with street cars as just normal driving is basically a bedding procedure....just dont do anything stupid, no panic stops and dont overheat them immediately....the source of most brake squeals is not between the pad and the disc (except in some cases where the leading edge of the pad isn't beveled or the material is way too hard) but between the back of the pad and the caliper piston...most modern disc brake setups have a series of shims (or additional friction material) built on to the back of the pads to prevent squeal but what we're dealing with on our cars is WAY behind in technology with a tiny square pad thats a chinese copy of 50 year old parts made as cheaply as possible

[viiking]

I’ve been driving on and off my (Dad’s) 1968 Beetle with standard ATE single pin caliper clad front brakes since it was new. Never a squeal from the 50+year old technology.

It seems the squeal is a new car or brake pad manufacturing phenomenon. No anti rattle springs, no anti squeal sprays on the old bug. Some models of BMW have been found to have insoluble front brake squeal symptoms.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3