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Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Bendango wrote:
WildIdea wrote:
Bendango wrote:
Great to see those lenses go in. Which side has the 3D printed part?


I can't tell visually, they are indistinguishable from each other. The passenger side is printed. Cool


Dam that’s what I thought! - That means there is room for improvement, I’ll have to make that outer edge radius a hair larger. Razz Razz Razz


Let’s just save that for another part down the road!! Laughing
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Little Sunday effort to report. Started with removal of the steering box and column. Everything was going well and coming apart as predicted accept I stripped out a steering column mounting bracket screw. The one side came out easy and I should have know better by now and put some oil on them, but I went for it dry and with bad posture from the passenger side and stripped it. Wasn’t able to get good weight in my impact driver....

No problem to tap it out with a punch and nothing but the screw was damaged.
Found a pretty old book of matches under the gauge pod.

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I had the box bolts all removed but one and had everything ready to go. I knew I would need to jack up the bus to get the column to clear and had my wife there to spot me with another set of eyes. The ceiling is pretty low in this bay and the garage door raised makes it even tighter. That and the front is just on jack stands, so I wanted to raise it from the center. I saw on someone’s thread once they had a block of wood that cradled the center pin without putting pressure on the set up. I set out here to make one for myself. Simple, but this will be nice to have around the shop.

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From there it was no problem to drop the steering box. Cat was leaning in the cabin giving me jack cues and making sure the column didn’t scratch the front bench and out she came.

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At this point I was basically picking up for the afternoon. I wanted to start melting the cake off the steering box but still had the driver side torsion arms to clean first. I went ahead and finished those up with the rest of my time. All 4 of those are prepped now.

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These parts are really oily and it pays to clean the shop and tools as I go. I was staging the steering box cleaning and was thinking I could put something in my vice to hold the column and I had this block sitting there I just hollowed out. I used a rasp to smooth out the gap a bit and make a better cradle. Now the block has another purpose. I’m all set to start digging into this and inspect the parts.

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All in all another decent session and a bit of progress getting cleaner every day.
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Bendango
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

WildIdea wrote:
Bendango wrote:
WildIdea wrote:
Bendango wrote:
Great to see those lenses go in. Which side has the 3D printed part?


I can't tell visually, they are indistinguishable from each other. The passenger side is printed. Cool


Dam that’s what I thought! - That means there is room for improvement, I’ll have to make that outer edge radius a hair larger. Razz Razz Razz


Let’s just save that for another part down the road!! Laughing


Laughing Just kidding Laughing
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Of coarse I couldn’t wait it get out and degrease my steering box. I pealed off the loose bulk with a plastic chisel and started melting the harder cake with solvent...after a few hours I had it mostly cleaned up.

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What I’ve found is that there is a tamper wire looped to the outer case bolt that appears to be intact. Of note is there isn’t a fill plug but an angled grease zerk.

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Shaft oil seal is red.

I had a chance to start reading some threads here on the topic. There are quite a few, but I didn’t see one yet where anyone mentioned a grease zerk in the fill hole. Has anyone seen this before? Several on how to drain and fill. I did learn that some use grease and some use oil and that the shaft is an air vent. I did see that once on my ‘65 when I laid it flat and fluid came out the end of the steering column shaft. Oops. More reading ahead, the fog is lifting on how the system parts look and work.

I went back out to the garage and tipped the box over and no fluid came out the column end. Then I took the zerk off and saw the box full of old black grease. I put a Qtip shaft in and found it to be soft blackish oil. I left it there to get my head back in the books.

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Lastly, when I grab the drop arm I can feel it turns without any gravelly sounds but there are inconsistent types of flow. Turns with reasonable resistance, then frees up for a bit then has another sort of resistance within its throw. I’m thinking that at a minimum, I should be cleaning the box out. What has me scratching my head at this point is....if the box is full of grease, what escaped and covered the outside of the box with this much caked tar?
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Original was gear oil. VW later said just pump in a mix of STP and grease or just straight grease. A fresh rebuild could have John Deere Corn Head grease. I use Skilsaw oil in one of mine and Corn Head Grease in another.

Your description of action seems reasonable. Shouldn't be axial or radial play nor any hangups. Lots of good people have written good stuff on boxes here. I hope they chime in.
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Original was gear oil. VW later said just pump in a mix of STP and grease or just straight grease. A fresh rebuild could have John Deere Corn Head grease. I use Skilsaw oil in one of mine and Corn Head Grease in another.

Your description of action seems reasonable. Shouldn't be axial or radial play nor any hangups. Lots of good people have written good stuff on boxes here. I hope they chime in.


Thanks BarryL! This is a bit of data I was seeking. Curious if the set up looks original. My intuition is mixed between original and previously serviced. Otherwise, I can do my homework without wearing out the folks who blueprinted the refresh process already.

If I don’t get sidelined before my kids go to bed, I may get out and look at the box again tonight. I’m itching to pop the side of the case off and look inside. My service manual has a lengthy dedicated chapter on steering and has given me a good idea about what I will find inside. Maybe just reread that again but slower this time. My one concern is loosening the lever shaft adjuster nut to free the side plate. Hoping I can keep all that aligned.

I will also need to clip the securing wire. I suppose that will void my warranty. Thankfully, folks have been reaching out to me about extending that. Laughing
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

The extra night of reading was worth it. I was in a much better place the following night to have a peek inside.

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The case was packed full with a dark gray type of grease. It had an foul odor I’m not familiar with but I’m happy to see something was inside. Still not sure why the outside of the case was so caked, but some things may never be answered.

Once I started cleaning it out I could see what was going on inside and how it all works. I plan to change the oil seal so I went to get the drop arm off the lever shaft. This will help me get the inside of the box clean as well.

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I tried a few of my HF 2 and 3 prong pullers but those had clearance issues and limited arm bite and a failed to pull the drop arm off the shaft. This was becoming a late night adventure. Looking around the shop I realized my new steering wheel puller would slide between the arm base and the shaft perfectly and still get under the arm a decent about. I activated the puller and it wouldn’t budge. Manual says not to drive it off with hammer blows and resisted the urge. The plate started to flex and still nothing, so I stopped. I rotated it around a few places in case I was getting uneven pressure. At this point I realized I had another version of the puller Mark made that had bolt holes closer to the center. He said he didn’t like the first puller he made as the bolts would be too close to the wheel sides and may hurt the old resin when it (possibly violently) released from its keyed taper. He just gave me both when I picked them up and I had the gen 1 on my desk. I was hopping the slightly closer bolt holes would reduce plate flex enough to uplevel the pressure. It seemed to help, but I still maxed out the puller without the arm releasing.

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I had penetrating oil on from the start but was now adding some heat. Some heat time on the shaft with my plumbers torch and was ready to give up for the night.... I turned away and back again and it was all loose. It had magically released by itself. Well that was interesting, what else is new here, heat and oil every time. Nothing harmed and I was able to pull the shaft and clean a bit more before calling it a night.

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I don’t feel I need to disassemble the parts any further to clean it properly. I may. The parts show little or no wear and the shaft bushings are in excellent condition. I’m happy to see that these parts only fit together one way. I can see now the shaft tension adjuster is just a set screw. Overall, I feel I’m in great shape here and can put my eye on rebuilding with a new shaft seal, case gasket and put some oil inside. I’m pretty sure I have an extra seal around here someplace. Always open to suggestions. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Great. A little heat to make the outer expand. Did you dink the two parts so you can get it back in the same place?
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Great. A little heat to make the outer expand. Did you dink the two parts so you can get it back in the same place?


Thanks BarryL, I’m a big believer in heat. Sometimes I get impatient and think I can get by without it only to end up needing it. Thanks for asking, the shaft end and arm already had factory alignment markings.
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Just dropping by to see whats happening!

Great to see some good work going on, as always its good to see Smile
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

WildIdea wrote:
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With the wood grain in parallel to the beam or torsion housing I've had that block suddenly split.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
WildIdea wrote:

With the wood grain in parallel to the beam or torsion housing I've had that block suddenly split.


Really? In theory I could see that happening, but I have had a similar block for a couple of decades, and I know Clara has one and many others I am sure, with no issues. I guess one could be made of laminated chunks of plywood, but it seems to be a concern over very little probability.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
BarryL wrote:
WildIdea wrote:

With the wood grain in parallel to the beam or torsion housing I've had that block suddenly split.


Really? In theory I could see that happening, but I have had a similar block for a couple of decades, and I know Clara has one and many others I am sure, with no issues. I guess one could be made of laminated chunks of plywood, but it seems to be a concern over very little probability.


I’ve never had it happen to me either. But, BarryL has been a TS member a day longer than you, so...hahaha
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 4:14 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

62DoKaGuy wrote:
cdennisg wrote:
BarryL wrote:
WildIdea wrote:

With the wood grain in parallel to the beam or torsion housing I've had that block suddenly split.


Really? In theory I could see that happening, but I have had a similar block for a couple of decades, and I know Clara has one and many others I am sure, with no issues. I guess one could be made of laminated chunks of plywood, but it seems to be a concern over very little probability.


I’ve never had it happen to me either. But, BarryL has been a TS member a day longer than you, so...hahaha


Throw a few screws in it as a preventative measure and you are golden.
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Thanks folks! Cool thing about the Block. I had recently drove to see my 97 year old grandmother Vivian on her birthday. She still lives in her home by herself, albeit on the main floor only. During my visit she asked if I would organize some of her garage......now she was married to my bio grandfather Carl for 36 years and 4 years after he passed, she married my grandpa Tom who she was married to for 31 years until he passed in ‘18. While going through the garage I saw packages with both men’s names on the addresses, was pretty cool and I was crawling around the garage attic tripping into a past that started in 1951. We keep her garage tidy in case someone traveling to see her can fix the house or their car etc. I feel the Block is from the Carl period as he was a carpenter maintenance man and more mechanical of the two men. It’s been used to jack off of a long time. I have more than a few tools around that these men used and held and I love that they live on at my house. One way I can connect with them. Like shaking their hands.

Still, it appears to be cedar. I’ve worked in more than a few factories in my time and versed in “lock out tag out” let’s say. Every rule in a mine site is there because someone died. I understand the dangers of jacks and jack stands. I don’t trust any of it! I will monitor the block going forward. Thanks for caring BarryL.
———-—————————

I was able to get the steering box cleaned out and irrigated this morning. I will look at it again for more old grease as the day goes on. I’m ready to start putting it back together.

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I’m a little torn as to if I should go back to running a grease packed box, or switch to a gear oil. I’m curious on what the pros and cons would be of each for my design of box. I have the two bolt on the bottom variety. Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Could be Cedar, could also be Douglas Fir. Those shavings would have a strong cedar smell of it is that species. Think hamster cage smell, if you aren't already familiar. Love the history of the block. Nice to handle things that make you feel connected to your past.

Can't help with the steering box question, as that was something I never really dug deeply into over the years.
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

i think the original was gear oil. if it leaks, grease won't leak.... i think there is really nothing else to it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

When you say clean you mean sano.

I try to put wood near to 90 degrees grain-to-longitude force.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
When you say clean you mean sano.

I try to put wood near to 90 degrees grain-to-longitude force.


Than BarryL, I’ll get the lingo down and watch the wood grain now that you brought it to my attention.
———————————————

I was able to get my steering box refresh checked off and have it stowed until I will be ready for it.

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Since it was previously filled with grease and a paper gasket and appeared to have left the insides in great shape, I went back to that. I realize I was overthinking it and made a paper gasket and filled it back up. That and I leaned more for no leaks. I packed the bearings on the shaft by hand and got as much as possible around the bearings above and below the worm gear and shaft bushings before closing it up. I was able to fill the cavity with my grease gun through the zerc and the adjuster hole, turning the steering wheel nut as I went to let air out. Adjuster nut seems set but will probably need a final when installed with the wheel on. Overall seems to travel much smoother now.

The oil seal seems like more of a dust cover at this point. New one went in fine.

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Pressing on up front, my backing plates are still untouched and probably take on more of the front controls as I work through the rest of the front beam. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

I had some very productive hours in the garage today. Yesterday was filled with digging out a decent size tree that didn’t take and replanting a new one. Sore today over that and puttering in the garage was just about all I could do.

I had recently sent my front spindles out west to Greg @campingbox to do a full look through and rebuild. They showed up while working on the tree so it was instantly break time! Christmas in June. I’m very pleased with his workmanship and his attention to detail. It’s a huge jump forward for my project having enlisted Greg’s help here. Thanks Greg. I still have to study up some on the install but looking forward to getting up to speed here. His comment was that the bus doesn’t look to have lived a hard life...that’s consistent with what we’re seeing throughout....soft bits, parts rotted from elements and age, but nothing really worn out from miles.

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This has really ramped up my motivation on the front end project. I thought I would start by tackling the front two backing plates that were still sitting there crusty and get a list going of more parts to order.

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I’m not complaining here, I enjoy cleaning this stuff and it will be fun to put back together, but this melted grease stuff is the worst! Lots of rags and gloves. My heat, oil and ultrasonic tank all come into play to strip the cylinders and harvest the stars and bleeders. I thought I had some cylinder seals but I just have more for the rears. For the relatively low cost of new cylinders and how I’m already testing my first refurbished job in the rear, I didn’t want to press my luck and ordered 4 new fronts.

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I’ll keep these in hand in case I bump into a set of rebuild boots and seals, options. From there I went to odds and ends like grinding off the stuck shock collars from the upper mounting bolts. Then chasing the threads at the mount. While I was at it I pulled the rotted soft lines on both sides. Starting to clean the well area up one little bit at a time. I’m 80-90% leaning towards leaving the beam on the bus and cleaning it mounted on the bus. There is some caking around the zerks a few inches and that’s about it. The ball joints need boot attention, but they all seem tight. I’ll pop them off soon to service on the bench. All this stuff I feel I can remove, clean up and replace one piece at a time. Although overhead, I feel it’s in a decent spot and out if the way where it is. Change my mind!

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Lots of little stuff like pulling the steering damper checked off. A series of texts from Brian today kept me on track as well. Critical to me to have a solid buddy to bounce stuff off before I dig in too far at once.

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This is where I’m at right now. Building up a pretty good lot of parts ready to go. A few more seals, front shocks and cylinders will help round out the lot. Keeping busy and happy to have moved the chains and stayed in the shade and out of the heat of the day. Thanks for looking!
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