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Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Good day folks. I have been advancing a little bit on the steering wheel in the basement crafting studio. Great light, ventilation and tons of bench space for leaving projects out without having to pick them up each effort. It's going to be reworked and or stabilized similar to what I have done to the visors. Pre clean, stabilize with thin glue then follow up with a filler putty and texture and paint. I won't be refinishing like new, but rather stabilize for daily use and run with the distressed look.

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On initial inspection the wheel seems stable but with shrinking cracks. I did find one area that was rather loose and started bonding this first with a high viscosity glue.

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I follow that up with a thinner glue that wicks into cracks that are imperceptible. This glue is so thin it will run entirely through the pores of the wheel resin. Its a really satisfying process and easy to have too much going on. I can tell when my fingers start sticking to the underside and my nose and eyes start burning from the vapors. Best to just do little bursts and leave the room with the exhaust on.

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I've been hitting this in little bits all week. I want to be thorough because I will be covering this glue up with a two part filler and want it sealed and locked up tight inside.

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In the meantime I finally had a min free to get in the garage and hit the front end projects a bit more. I have been thinking I would leave the beam installed and clean it up there despite it being a bunch of overhead cleaning. I had one jack stand all draped for a degreaser soaking and went into that for a bit and realized I could get some grime, but not any of what was trapped behind the mounting plates of the beam. That and I have plenty to clean under the front floor, so after an hour of messing around cleaning, I abandoned that and went to removing the front beam.

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It took an hour to free the clutch cable mount arm from the pedal shaft, then pop off the bowden tube to pull the clutch cable from the front. The horn had to come off for the pedal lever to clear. That and the steering arm had to come off for the beam to have a free ride to the floor. All that to the bench for cleaning and eventually the horn to hang out with the steering wheel for a lab grade refresh in the basement. It probably works now, but the screw terminals are corroded.....

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I've never had a beam out on my own stuff before and it was enjoyable. With my jack stands relocated, my jack with wood block and gravity I just had to go back and fourth with my mallet a dozen times while letting the center jack lower at intervals and out she came. I'm glad I did already, I'll be able to evict a bunch of dirt and have tons of room to dress out the forward controls and undercarriage. I'll also be able to address the needs of the beam on a table at waist height. That was a wrap for the day and tool pick up time. This should keep me busy for a little while. Thanks for looking.

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

You know me, I gotta post up every time I lift a finger on the bus. It's worth it to me so I can journal my progress and invite anyone here that sees anything that I might miss, will pipe up. I appreciate that.

I have a string of days off work to tackle some home repairs, but naturally, I'm going to plant some hours on the bus. After an hour drinking coffee and researching parts and whatnot I like to jump right on something filthy before I jump in the shower for the day. Most of the morning was the first probe and degreaser dip. That ate up a few hours and I had to bolt, but left it out.

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Later in the evening I resumed and went after the swing lever. Got it pulled apart and spent a while cleaning those parts up. While this parts were in the ultrasonic tank, I was able to keep going on the beams dental. I'm about two thirds done with the oil cake strip down with one more solid push to go. Some of the cake is super tight and harder than Ive seen on the bus yet. I got a few grease zerks off and cleaned and pumped some grease through them to make sure they're not plugged and put them back on. The one bushing looks like it walked out some. Cleaned up, the center pin and bushings seem tight but may still just go ahead and rebush while I have the beam out.

Random thought; As I look at these welds I cant help but wonder what the type of welder, settings, work conditions and the particular workers hand would make welds that look like the ones on this beam. Nothing that comes out of the welder I use. It's like they have their own look or fingerprint. I think its pretty cool.

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So nice having the beam on the bench to work on and grateful its nice enough to do outside this time of year. Moving the chains and pressing on. Thanks for looking.

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sled
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

the top bushing is actually supposed to be protruding from the top of the centerpin housing, 1.4-1.7mm. It appears in your photos you tapped it back down flush? The lower bushing should be flush or slightly recessed in the housing.

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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

[quote="sled"]the top bushing is actually supposed to be protruding from the top of the centerpin housing, 1.4-1.7mm. It appears in your photos you tapped it back down flush? The lower bushing should be flush or slightly recessed in the housing.

Yes, I tapped it down flush d'oh! . I'll have to draw it back out and now I know how much, thanks sled!
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

WildIdea wrote:
Moving the chains and pressing on.


Yep.
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Had pretty decent progress today on the beam. First off, I went after more of the outside detail and eventually decided I would pull the torsion bars to inspect and clean out the tubes. First time for me, so I took a bunch of pictures before it came apart and with the help of my daughter, because my hands were greasy, got some progress pictures.

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I wiped off the leaves no problem, but the tubes would be a whole other issue. I have some length of scrap wiring around for just in case. I went to some of my thicker gauge and flattened an end to see if I could drag out some of the old grease. Worked pretty good, and even better at snagging rags to pull the bulk of the old grease out. It was really ugly stuff and needed to go. Really didn't take too long to get the grease out this way. I could bend the wire so that it would twist around and drag along the inside surfaces and up to the bushings pretty nicely.

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I notice when I pulled out the leaves that there was a cavity inside that didn't hold any grease that was growing and holding some rusty gravely bits inside. Once cleaned I could see that it pitted the inside of the tube some. I thought it prudent to get some grease pumped in there and spun around before I put the leaves back in the tube. kinda pre load it if you will before I go to final grease filling once the torsion arms are put back on. I can also pump grease straight into the central torsion bar fixing holes before I set the locking nuts.

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Well that was a journey, but it was early enough in the day to pull the second one and repeat the process.

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I see a little less corrosion inside this tube. Pre fill the center and put it all back together and pick up tools for the night. Of note, I finally came to terms with my grease gun, with the help of some Youtube tutorials and finally have this tool cooperating with me now that I need more cartridges to finish the job. My lack of understanding here has caused few too many tubes to back feed. Operator error but way less aggravating now. I feel like I finally hit the halfway point on this project and can now start building it all back up. Besides now having the center pin bushing back where it needs to be, I'll oil down the outside tomorrow and set it aside for when its mounting cradle is prepped. Thanks for looking.

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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

My drag links and ball joints got some attention yesterday. With the clutch cable passing through the beam, I had pulled the clutch lever because it needs attention too. The cable retaining clip was rust fused and needed to get punched out on my vice so dealt with that as well.

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I was seeing that the ball joints were still filled with old grease and tight tolerances inside. I’m happy with that as I’m looking to run as many original parts as possible and think these will operate really well. I tossed one boot to rot and figured I would be needing a set of 6 replacements, but after I cleaned up the other 5, they are in usable shape.

The ball joint ends were basically protected inside by old grease cake. I can handle that stuff no problem now. Grease remover, pick, press brush and ultrasonics. Cycle through that and they’re looking good.

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Nothing better than working on parts at waist height on the bench. I actually took pleasure in pumping these full of grease. Watching the old dirty grease and ultrasonic fluid get evicted by fresh clean grease is satisfying.

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Another grip of parts cleaned up and saved. Stacked in the pile ready to go back on the bus when it’s time. Next up while I’m at it and have good room underneath, brake master, controls and oil cake that’s on the frame and front undercarriage.

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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Last little push to button up the bean on my staycation. Despite all the other projects and distractions I was still able to work on this beam a few hours at a time or even simply a string of minutes here and there.

Lastly I slid the leaves out and gave then one last look with grease and slid them back in. I went ahead and put the swing lever and pin back in as well to have one less bag of parts to misplace. One last bushing irrigation and brush and it went back together in a snap. I needed a clamp to lightly compress the wavy washer and align the cut out in the pin for the securing bolt to pass through. I had to dig a little to find a set of new rubber snubbers to buy and they showed today which was nice. I wanted to pop them on, but feel they’ll be in the way for sliding the torsion arms on. Snubbers can go on after the beam is installed and the arms are placed.

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I really got familiar with this set up cleaning it. Then I gave the outside a thorough rub down with some gear oil to hydrate the dryness and it’s all set to put back under the bus when it’s time.

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Speaking of, I haven’t touched any of that yet and wanted to get some eyes in there to see what I’m in for next. Doesn’t look that bad to me. Some grease cake around the steering box mount and that’s about it. Next up, brake master and lever removal. That and anything else I can clean, refresh, reseal and lubricate. I actually kinda see a rolling bus again in my future. Closer anyway or if I really needed it to I could press on it, otherwise I’m still slow, methodical and steady. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

WildIdea wrote:
I really got familiar with this set up cleaning it. Then I gave the outside a thorough rub down with some gear oil to hydrate the dryness and it’s all set to put back under the bus when it’s time.


The stinkiest of all oils! Laughing Laughing

I always like seeing your thread pop back up. Such great detailed progress. Keep it up!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Great stuff - rest assured we all check this thread everytime there is an update. Even if we don’t always comment! Thanks for keeping the thread updated.
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Thanks Okie Adam and Bendango! I appreciate you guys following along with my progress! Time for a mini update.

I haven’t touched anything all week and finally had a few days to see what I could tackle. I’m starting to get more parts laying around than I’m comfortable with, but I have this front area cleared out, so I wanted to get at whatever I could while its opened up. The brake master was about all that was left to sort out so I went into seeing what was the situation there.

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When I unbolted the lines from the master, a decent amount of brake fluid came out of each one. I take that as a good sign that the original lines are usable. If not, oh well. I’ll replace them if they are obstructed, but hoping I won’t have to.

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The old tin can fluid reservoir is pretty cool looking. I’m hoping I can save it. On first inspection, I’m doubtful as it’s pretty crusty inside. I’ve seen worse come around….

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I’m interested in seeing what shape this master is in so I get after cleaning and taking it apart. The fluid reservoir mounting nut is eaten up by chemical decay so before I round off what corners I have, I try to loosen it with heat and scald it in the ultrasonic tank

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That works and dropping the unit in warm water while hot seemed to do the trick. While that is all running in the tank, I get a better look at the crud I have to remove on the undercarriage. I start on the grease removal in small bursts as the fluid starts running down my arms. I break that up with brake lever parts cleaning.

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This eats up what hours I have and I’m happy to have done anything for the bus. The lever return spring was broken so adding that to the list. I have my old ‘65 spring but it’s too rusty to trust. The old tin can seems to have bit the dust too. Just too many pin holes showed up once I cleaned it up. Bummer.

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So that’s that for now. I’m gonna get my old take off master from the ‘65 rounded up and compare the two. I have a Brazilian mater rebuild kit here as well, so I plan on messing with that some more before I decide what I will be needing to order, if anything.

On a side note, last week out of the blue, TSamba member Baha4 reach out to me in PM and dropped off some VW stamped axle boot clamps at my work. He said he noticed in this thread that I was missing one VW stamped clamp and he had some. It’s not just the stamps I like, it usually a better made and fitting part. Guy went out of his way to swing by and hand them over while he was traveling in his VW. Incredible. Sorry I missed you, my coworkers said your an awesome dude! Floored by the community support and interest in my project and what I’m trying to accomplish with it. Thank You!

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velvetgreen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

pretty sure i have seen pics somewhere where a person basically hogged out the original metal master cylinder shell (i.e. cut the bottom of it out and then slid the remaining outer structure over a net new master cylinder, thereby maintaining the look or the original with the functionality of new Same idea i have seen people doing with old pop cans and coils in the engine compartment. Can't recall where I saw it but looked like good compromise
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

velvetgreen wrote:
pretty sure i have seen pics somewhere where a person basically hogged out the original metal master cylinder shell (i.e. cut the bottom of it out and then slid the remaining outer structure over a net new master cylinder, thereby maintaining the look or the original with the functionality of new Same idea i have seen people doing with old pop cans and coils in the engine compartment. Can't recall where I saw it but looked like good compromise


Thanks for the input velvetgreen, I’ll keep that in mind. I pulled the master apart and will show what I found. Thanks for checking in!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Seems like a lot of work, but here's the post velvetgreen was referring to:

https://blog.entfallteiledienst.de/?p=1610

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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

The master I pulled off the bus looked really bad inside. I’ve had it soaking in penetrating oil and heat for a few days and can get some oil to pass from the inlet hole to the rear line holes. The piston was frozen and anything pushing from the rear has a spring that absorbs any probes. As much as I hated to, I decided to draw it out with a tap like I would with a bushing. It grooved up the inside walls of the piston, but I felt it a good option as I have a rebuild kit on hand. Grabbed the tap with vice grips and tapped it out with a hammer. Sick

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Pretty gross, that all gets set aside for a while while I look for my old single circuit master that I took off my ‘65 when I went front disk brakes and dual circuit master. It was that last place I looked but it turned up. I don’t know if it’s from a ‘65 or not.

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I had working brakes on that bus and it was working when I took it off a few years ago although the fluid reservoir was leaking. I put the piston rod in it and pushed and a blast of fluid flew all over the shop. Well ok that’s good. I got it stripped down and inspected the parts. The bore looks good to me so I ultrasonic all the parts in fresh detergent and blast them with compressed air. The body cleans up and I get it dry and reassemble the unit. I put a new seal on the reservoir and set in up with printer paper for the night to see it it will still leak from the reservoir with a new seal.

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Back to the older master. This is when I realized my rebuild kit is of a smaller bore size and won’t work. d'oh! I can use the large rod boot, that’s it. I did go ahead and try to hone the bore just to see how deep the pitting was. It’s maybe not a total loss, but my hone lost a stone and that stopped that project in its tracks. I’m not giving up on it quite yet.

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I was able to dress up some parts with my bench top polisher. I recommend having one of these in the shop. Doesn’t have to be industrial, but comes in handy more that I would have thought, like a quick dress up of this rust seized lever pin. Worthy of the beach space it takes up. Thanks!

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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Rhodrich wrote:
Seems like a lot of work, but here's the post velvetgreen was referring to:

https://blog.entfallteiledienst.de/?p=1610


That’s awesome! I can see myself doing something like this! Thanks for sourcing the link! I appreciate it!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

That master is toast unless you want to have it sleeved. Just remember in a split bus you live life in the crumple zone.
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:
That master is toast unless you want to have it sleeved. Just remember in a split bus you live life in the crumple zone.


Thanks ToolBox

Always the first one at the scene of the accident in a bus line, I get it. As an avid motorcyclist I’m well aware of the risks and consequences vs reward. I’m mostly concerned with preserving the beauty of this bus front nose skin.

I can always slap a new dual master and disks on front and I probably will. Right now I’m more interested in seeing what’s inside one of these and see if I can get the OG system tuned to work as originally designed. To also build my sense of what different wear tolerances are, what’s worth bringing back around, what merits a spot in the parts stash and what should get scrapped.

I have one core buddy that I’m always wrenching with and whenever we take something off he looks at it and just furrows his brow and grunts and walks away. I ask him what he’s seeing and I usually just get a follow up grunt. I want to be able to read wear myself and build a skill set that I feel will help me diagnose future issues.

The same guy always touted that the cheapest way to build a bike is to build it once, not redo everything three times..I get that aspect. For me here, I want to learn all the basic systems as VW issued as a baseline and adjust from there. Likely doing performance down the road if I want to do more than parades and cruiser nights with it, essentially building it twice. With that said, with the relatively original as found condition of this bus, I have a unique opportunity to build up a solid base of knowledge for a bus of this vintage. I don’t know if it will be a good trade financially but I feel I can afford to mess around here a while for the enjoyment of it.

Thankfully I’m not going it totally alone ToolBox and will take your nod that the OG master is a paper weight and move on. I’m adsorbing all the data points I can from the folks who have walked before me. Happy to show my work and findings for forum feedback. I’ll be forever grateful for any and all information that’s transferred onto me. Thank you.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion
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WildIdea
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Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 927
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

It's been a solid week for attention up front. I've been able to hit this area in several 2-3 hour bursts which is about perfect for me physically. I'm getting more and more dirt out from under so that means less falling in my eyes and miring in it while I lay on my back. I feel a bit of strain in my neck muscles, important I take breaks as I go.

I've been looking at my single circuit master cylinder from the bus and have decided to shelve it for now and put my attention to the SC master from my '65. My drip test of its old reservoir was a fail, so I ordered a new reservoir and seal that is working holding fluid now. That and a new pressure switch while I was at it. If you remember, this old units casting had a thick layer of rust on the outside.

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I put in against my wire wheel and it cleaned up nicely, although now bare metal and a bit shiny. I wanted to put a thin layer of rust back on it. I have some chemical darkeners for my bronze medallic art castings and grabbed a brown and brushed it on. Looks perfect to me now and should protect the metal.

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Moving on, I'm concentrating on anything I can get to under here before I bolt up the front beam again. Lots of cleaning and conditioning, like cleaning out the front lever bushings and chasing threads, degreasing and blowing out any nook I can get in. Change my perspective angle and a whole new batch of crud falling off. I spent a lot of time sweeping and showering. It's hot outside but I'm in the shade and I could never do this work in the winter with the door open and laying on the ground, so I'm pushing to get this area complete this season before I batten down the hatch. I want it done so I can focus on the engine exclusively this winter in the back of my stall without chassis parts to step around.

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One night, I was struggling with the front brake lever return spring. On the '65, I remember having the shaft, lever and spring all together and being able to load up the spring from below and get the shaft inserted in one effort. Here, I could push on the lever and load the spring enough to get the shaft started but I wasn't able to get the shaft step to align with the cup properly. Went to the Samba search....that's when it dawned on me that's why there is a snap ring! d'oh! I removed the snap ring, mounted the shaft, placed the lever with loaded spring, used a triggered wood clamp on the frame and lever to draw in the lever enough to add the washer and snap ring and done in 10 min! Little stuff like that is fun to work out. Was too greasy that night to take pics.

I've been wondering about the solid brake lines and had a day to check them out. I see one can order new, but I like the way the factory bends are and don't feel I can reproduce that look. They are in a protected area in the bus and hope that's helping preserve their integrity. I can visualize some debris or evaporated fluid plaque inside the arteries, so I set out to investigate. I used my jack to hold a clean glass beaker on it then blasted the other end of the line with canned brake cleaner followed by compressed air. First shots produced some small black flakes but got progressively cleaner until I was getting nothing after 10-12 blasts. I undid the rear at the brass T and shot the long line from there. It had more of an ooze and went clear quicker. Pretty happy about this situation. Buttoned that up and inserted my new clutch cable and worked out the bowden tube while I was in there.

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I blew off my throttle and pedal for now. It operates and I feel I can add the new boot at any time. I'm just about ready to put the front beam back in and eventually build the wheels back up. Thanks for looking.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion
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Bendango
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Joined: September 04, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus Reply with quote

Applause
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I want a real garage.

WANTED - [WTB] 55-62 Bus Thin Lip Package Tray SWR

Getting Used - SWR 60 westy copy built by vw ( apparently Rolling Eyes )
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320866

Braukuche wrote:
Where did you find the elephant dick?
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