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150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

loganthecyclist wrote:
Don't know if anyone else has tried these cells yet and wanted to share that they fit under the driver's seat without any modification.


nice install!

100AH is good for most campers, but naturally everyone wants 30% more Wink Wink
They want 150 actually but is it worth cutting metal and stuff for 18Ah more?
Not if you have alternator charging.

132Ah makes the project that much easier, doable.
I think a lot of members would appreciate knowing more.

loganthecyclist .....suggesting..... you make a top post with a title that says it all, such as: "132AH LiFePO4 easily fits inside the battery box"
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BrownLoaf
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
Butcher wrote:
If that circuit breaker is the cheap Chinese version, I would highly recommend to find a different type before you mount that up. I have 4 that were junk and I ended up using an old school fuse.

The circuit breakers would either trip too soon, did not work out of the box, or had such a huge voltage drop that the inverter did not work properly.

That's my $.02 you never asked for.
Seconded and 'thirded'!!! I've also had four that were junk. Throw it away and use a fuse.


Were they the Blue Seas marine circuit breakers? I hope not because these things were not cheap...
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BrownLoaf
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
loganthecyclist wrote:
Don't know if anyone else has tried these cells yet and wanted to share that they fit under the driver's seat without any modification.


nice install!

100AH is good for most campers, but naturally everyone wants 30% more Wink Wink
They want 150 actually but is it worth cutting metal and stuff for 18Ah more?
Not if you have alternator charging.

132Ah makes the project that much easier, doable.
I think a lot of members would appreciate knowing more.

loganthecyclist .....suggesting..... you make a top post with a title that says it all, such as: "132AH LiFePO4 easily fits inside the battery box"


Thanks Sodo! I hope to do a dedicated thread once the work is done. But now that you mention it, maybe I should start the thread sooner and document the progress?

BTW, thank you for finding these cells and posting them on the Samba. They are indeed a great fit! I spent an embarrassing amount of time searching for Goldilocks sized cells and could not find any options better than these.
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Butcher
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

loganthecyclist wrote:

Were they the Blue Seas marine circuit breakers? I hope not because these things were not cheap...


Good to read that there are some people that do not buy cheap junk. I do my best to stay away from junk, but sometimes it's worth buying stuff to test.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
This is new to me. I had a question though. A few years ago I did something similar with 4 AGM batteries. In the end, one battery failed and impacted the charging, combined etc. There was no easy way to monitor individual batteries or to easily isolate them.

The above setup seems quite a bit fancier. Does it have the ability to monitor the individual batteries?


The main difference is you did four 12V batteries in parallel (each having six 2V cells in separate series), whereas this is four 3.2V cells in a single series (overlooking, for now, that Li BMS's are also needed to balance cell voltages within a Li series string, which is where a direct comparison breaks down, but the series vs. parallel contrast still applies).

In series, charge and discharge current thru each cell is exactly the same. In parallel, current is never exactly equal in each of the cells or batteries because no two cells and hence no two batteries have exactly the same resistance, so current branches and apportions itself according to the different cell resistances, both on charge and discharge. The unequal currents cause the already-unequal resistances to gradually become even more unequal, until the highest-resistance battery is receiving very little charge and contributing very little to discharge as well, until it's effectively useless. Its voltage never recovers and being at lower voltage, at rest the others start dumping current into it, dragging their voltages down. So you take the worst one out of the pack, but the process carries on with the others until a second one becomes useless, and eventually the third as well.

This is what you should expect when paralleling multiple strings of cells, and it was predicted by me and others when that 3 or 4-pack arrangement was first shown here. Over the following years the predictions were borne out, but there was never any doubt in the first place, only a lack of understanding on the part of the ones who insisted everything would work out fine, that the different resistances were too slight to ever matter, etc. Most focused on the connection resistances, assuming, wrongly, that the cells could be treated as identical. They're not, they never are, it's not even possible to make them perfectly equal, ever, battery cells might as well be snowflakes.

Multiple parallel cell strings should be avoided, obviously. If it must be done to get enough Ah capacity, then stick to only two strings, that can be managed adequately to get good life out of the pack, but three or more is basically begging for trouble.


Thanks. This perfectly explains why my parallel 80Ah x 2 AGM battery setup failed, failed and failed again. This setup worked excellent for the first year and then proved to be wholly inadequate thereafter, making me the butt of all campfire jokes and causing my wife to question my masculinity and general utility in the relationship. FML
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

Wives just want the danged refrigerator to work.
They tire of explanations, and purchasing foam coolers on the 2nd day of the vacation.
And they think that feller with the Sprinter over yonder has provided a functioning refrigerator for his wife.
When you get a functioning refrigerator she will think it’s “just normal “.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

Meanwhile, the Sprinter Husband is macking on your uber-cool Westfalia Syncro and wondering how he ended up settling for such a lame rig.

The grey water is always greyer on the other Van.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

The problem is my lizard brain thought that if a TF65 provided fun refrigerating things, then one twice that size would provide twice those fun things. Choices have consequences. I was rewarded handsomely until I wasn't. Now I'm throwing the parts cannon at it, after the last trip up to Kalaloch didn't include a working diesel heater.

When Susan's not happy, ain't nobody happy.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

Since I have eyeballz on my plight, I'm installing two 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries and a DC-DC charger. My question is whether I can also keep my existing 120vac to 12vdc power supply/battery charger in the loop. I purchased this charger from a Samba celebrity a while back and it's done pretty good at powering our TF135 on 120vac, and attempting to charge the AGM batteries. My concern is whether it will be compatible with the lithium batteries.
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

Lithium does have a different charge profile/voltages. I imagine it will work - but will only charge your lithium batteries to a max of 80% (your charger will think it's fully charged).
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Since I have eyeballz on my plight, I'm installing two 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries and a DC-DC charger. My question is whether I can also keep my existing 120vac to 12vdc power supply/battery charger in the loop. I purchased this charger from a Samba celebrity a while back and it's done pretty good at powering our TF135 on 120vac, and attempting to charge the AGM batteries. My concern is whether it will be compatible with the lithium batteries.


The key piece of info is whether that DC/DC charger you have supports LiFePO4 batteries. If it does you are golden.

If not it will still charge but not to 100%.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

It's a Renogy and claims to support them, so I'm hoping for the best...or maybe just 80% best. Perhaps.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

How might a feller who had a few paltry AGM amp-hours last
month find a way to use 160 Ah this month?
What else has changed systemwise?

Retirement?

You have to camp in one place, never driving to the store or touring
for 2 or 3 days to consume 160 Ah.
This may require discipline & solar panel avoidance.

I’ve been using 150Ah of LiFePo4 long enough to know that I’d have to
add more appliances (and stay parked) for 100Ah to be a limitation.

And it’s a “soft” limitation.
But once you set out the rugs and tie off an awning that makes it easier to avoid going for a drive and (OMG!!!) charging the battery.

160Ah is a good amount of electricity and your batteries will last longer at 80%.
Instead of just 4,000 cycles you might get 5,000.
At 100 camping trips per year, 5,000 gets you to y2073.
You’ll be laughing when some other wasteful sap had to buy new batteries back in ‘63.

LiFePo4 is good at 100Ah.

I too was traumatized by AGM batteries.
And had a LiFPo4 cell leak&swell too, after a short time.
I’m a little afraid to look at my cells for van season 2023.

Dunno about the 3,4,5,000 cycles predictions when it comes to camping use.
I do hope it lasts for 10 years, and wonder what kind of battery technology is coming.
At 24 camps/year that would be 240 cycles in 10 years.
In y2033 the engine might be electric too.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: 150 Ah LiFePo4 in drivers battery box - my take Reply with quote

[quote="BrownLoaf"][quote="Sodo"][img]https://www.thesamba.com/vw/

These 132Ah LiFePO4 are $439 on AliExpress and "they say" there's US stock, 3-7 days.

I tried the above link and it now hops to a set of battery cells that = 135ah and are too big to fit in the battery box Sad

Does anyone know if the 132ah cells that do fit are still available as of March, 2024? I can't seem to find them... the OP's link now hops to this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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