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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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 Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:42 am Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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A tip you can take or leave. Saves sanding away your precious bus metal. Citristrip covered in plastic. ( stick the plastic wrap directly to it) will take the old paint off and leave the metal. Of course scraping with a putty knife is involved. Then, go to McMaster/Carr and order up some Naval Jelly rust remover. Goop it on the rusty spots pretty thick and then scrape that after a while and then goop it again. Voila! Clean steel with none of it sanded thin! One caveat is that warmer temps will help. I used chip brushes from Dollar Tree for both the stripper and the Naval Jelly. Go to YouTube and watch Wray Schelin's videos on metal work and de rusting old cars. Best of luck and hope you enjoyed GTNP and YNP!
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| richparker wrote: |
All this time spent on the body and you’re going to put the paint on with a brush?
After all the money you just spent, what’s another $100 on a gravity fed pneumatic paint gun? |
The outside body will only get a brush paint it I enter into the freezing months of winter without a chance of being able to get out and spray it as I want to keep this moving. It would be too hard to heat the garage while being safe about it with improper ventilation, room, or painting temps. I will probably spray it though as I think I will be able to squeeze it in before it gets too cold.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
Last edited by Ceckert64 on Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| TomWesty wrote: |
| A tip you can take or leave. Saves sanding away your precious bus metal. Citristrip covered in plastic. ( stick the plastic wrap directly to it) will take the old paint off and leave the metal. Of course scraping with a putty knife is involved. Then, go to McMaster/Carr and order up some Naval Jelly rust remover. Goop it on the rusty spots pretty thick and then scrape that after a while and then goop it again. Voila! Clean steel with none of it sanded thin! One caveat is that warmer temps will help. I used chip brushes from Dollar Tree for both the stripper and the Naval Jelly. Go to YouTube and watch Wray Schelin's videos on metal work and de rusting old cars. Best of luck and hope you enjoyed GTNP and YNP! |
The sanding I’ve done on the body was not nearly as aggressive as the roof and it wouldn’t have removed metal as it barely removed the paint  and I tried to keep as much good paint as possible to put primer over as I think the original paint has a good bond and I don’t like having a lot of bare metal exposed as it could flash rust before I have a chance to paint (and I’ve had that happen many times especially when using stripper). Do you know if citristrip better than aircraft paint stripper? I’ve used the aircraft stuff and it doesn’t work that great and it’s a horrible mess. I might use citristrip on a future project though.
For the naval jelly, ospho is pretty much the same concept, is phosphoric acid as is naval jelly. I found it works well. I watched the video you recommended and it’s like the green stuff he sprayed but I think Ospho is a better/stronger type of it.
I’ve done a restoration on my beetle with complete strip down mostly all to bare metal top bottom inside and out and it was terrible and time consuming and I’m just finishing it up now after 5 years of body/metal work. It’s part of what has caused me to lose interest in that project as it seems a never ending slog. I’m trying to avoid that situation happening again for this bus and for it to not reach that point
The trip was really nice! Thanks for asking!
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| Ceckert64 wrote: |
| TomWesty wrote: |
| A tip you can take or leave. Saves sanding away your precious bus metal. Citristrip covered in plastic. ( stick the plastic wrap directly to it) will take the old paint off and leave the metal. Of course scraping with a putty knife is involved. Then, go to McMaster/Carr and order up some Naval Jelly rust remover. Goop it on the rusty spots pretty thick and then scrape that after a while and then goop it again. Voila! Clean steel with none of it sanded thin! One caveat is that warmer temps will help. I used chip brushes from Dollar Tree for both the stripper and the Naval Jelly. Go to YouTube and watch Wray Schelin's videos on metal work and de rusting old cars. Best of luck and hope you enjoyed GTNP and YNP! |
The sanding I’ve done on the body was not nearly as aggressive as the roof and it wouldn’t have removed metal as it barely removed the paint and I tried to keep as much good paint as possible to put primer over as I think the original paint has a good bond and I don’t like having a lot of bare metal exposed as it could flash rust before I have a chance to paint (and I’ve had that happen many times especially when using stripper). Do you know if citristrip better than aircraft paint stripper? I’ve used the aircraft stuff and it doesn’t work that great and it’s a horrible mess. I might use citristrip on a future project though.
For the naval jelly, ospho is pretty much the same concept, is phosphoric acid as is naval jelly. I found it works well. I watched the video you recommended and it’s like the green stuff he sprayed but I think Ospho is a better/stronger type of it.
I’ve done a restoration on my beetle with complete strip down mostly all to bare metal top bottom inside and out and it was terrible and time consuming and I’m just finishing it up now after 5 years of body/metal work. It’s part of what has caused me to lose interest in that project as it seems a never ending slog. I’m trying to avoid that situation happening again for this bus and for it to not reach that point
The trip was really nice! Thanks for asking! |
Im not familiar at all with Aircraft stripper. This Citristrip is far from perfect, but it seems to work okay. Paint removal f any kind is messy. I'm fortunate to live in a fairly dry climate. Best of luck!
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If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| TomWesty wrote: |
| Im not familiar at all with Aircraft stripper. This Citristrip is far from perfect, but it seems to work okay. Paint removal f any kind is messy. I'm fortunate to live in a fairly dry climate. Best of luck! |
Good information! I definitely agree, there are dozens of ways to remove paint but all are somewhat time consuming and messy. We usually aren’t that wet but it’s rained a little bit almost every day for the last few weeks here and it’s been crazy weather.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| richparker wrote: |
All this time spent on the body and you’re going to put the paint on with a brush?
After all the money you just spent, what’s another $100 on a gravity fed pneumatic paint gun? |
Sssshhhh. At least he took the windows out.
Tack tack tack tack……grind grind grind…
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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Stoked to see you pushing forward. Way to power on thru.
Prepping for paint is always a PITA but that's what makes paint jobs last.
Definitely take the time to blast down low where water accumulates and rust likes to hide.
Drip rails, window bottoms, etc.
Blasting is the best for chasing the rust out of it's hidey places,
And the least fun to do no doubt.
Nothing sucks like having fresh paint bubble up just a few years/months later.
The blaster won't get everything - but the little pits left can be soaked in some kind of phosphoric to hopefully neutralize enough for paint to last.
Leaving good factory paint is indeed OK IMHO,
But watch out for re-paint work - it rarely adheres like factory paint, mostly for the reasons we're talking about here.
If it's getting too cold/wet to shoot paint don't rush it and be in a hurry.
Maybe spend the whole winter cold season blasting and stripping/sanding (and welding?) then give it a dousing of phosphoric to hold it over until spring?
Not sure how dry it is there, but depending upon your climate Ospho and the like can keep flash rust at bay if stuff is kept inside.
Here a block down-wind from the ocean phosphoric rusts up if outside overnight.
My friends in Colorado don't have bare metal rust up for months inside even without phosphoric..
Big thing is, when it comes time, to get an epoxy sealer down and then follow it up right away with primer surfacer (high-build primer a.k.a. primer filler) or paint.
Epoxy sealer is like 'paint glue' in that it makes paint stick. It dries rock-hard.
You have to put something on top of it before it gets too hard/dry or nothing will stick to it.
So be ready to top-coat epoxy within a day or so - or less.
If you glue the paint down with epoxy sealer then you'll have the best chance of keeping your paint from lifting later in any spots that didn't get cleaned perfectly prior.
JMHO,
Hope this helps.
You can get away with a lot less grueling paint removal if you use your chemicals right.
Stay patient.
Nothing sucks like watching your new paint lift away and rust creeping underneath.
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Stoked to see you pushing forward. Way to power on thru.
Prepping for paint is always a PITA but that's what makes paint jobs last.
Definitely take the time to blast down low where water accumulates and rust likes to hide.
Drip rails, window bottoms, etc.
Blasting is the best for chasing the rust out of it's hidey places,
And the least fun to do no doubt.
Nothing sucks like having fresh paint bubble up just a few years/months later.
The blaster won't get everything - but the little pits left can be soaked in some kind of phosphoric to hopefully neutralize enough for paint to last.
Leaving good factory paint is indeed OK IMHO,
But watch out for re-paint work - it rarely adheres like factory paint, mostly for the reasons we're talking about here.
If it's getting too cold/wet to shoot paint don't rush it and be in a hurry.
Maybe spend the whole winter cold season blasting and stripping/sanding (and welding?) then give it a dousing of phosphoric to hold it over until spring?
Not sure how dry it is there, but depending upon your climate Ospho and the like can keep flash rust at bay if stuff is kept inside.
Here a block down-wind from the ocean phosphoric rusts up if outside overnight.
My friends in Colorado don't have bare metal rust up for months inside even without phosphoric..
Big thing is, when it comes time, to get an epoxy sealer down and then follow it up right away with primer surfacer (high-build primer a.k.a. primer filler) or paint.
Epoxy sealer is like 'paint glue' in that it makes paint stick. It dries rock-hard.
You have to put something on top of it before it gets too hard/dry or nothing will stick to it.
So be ready to top-coat epoxy within a day or so - or less.
If you glue the paint down with epoxy sealer then you'll have the best chance of keeping your paint from lifting later in any spots that didn't get cleaned perfectly prior.
JMHO,
Hope this helps.
You can get away with a lot less grueling paint removal if you use your chemicals right.
Stay patient.
Nothing sucks like watching your new paint lift away and rust creeping underneath.
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Thank you! I just slowed down a bit with school/events/friends the last few days, after tomorrow I should be able to keep plowing ahead again. Then Saturday/Sunday I should be able to work all day on it.
I’ve got the window channels pretty good with the blast but some of this rust doesn’t want to come of blasting at it for a long time. Then a wire wheel on the grinder it’s still there. But I found if I put ospho on it it seems to loosen up the rust to where it comes off. I also blasted the rust out of the rain channel but it is actually in pretty good shape with few rust spots. I’m going to try to exterminate the rust the best I can.
With the respray, I have found little water droplet sized dots where the original paint wasn’t cleaned off good enough before the respray, it almost looks like dirt? I found a bunch on the nose and about 5 on the rest of the body. So I probably need to take most of the respray off. Especially the nose. Grrr
Yeah, I think I missed my window for paint this season, it’s plunged into the 40s the last few days. I guess I will wait to paint or figure out how to make a paint booth. There’s also a little paint shop on my way to the college I’m taking classes at. Maybe I will see how much they’d spray a car for? All the money and time is in prep so maybe it’ll be cheaper?
I got a little welding left but only enough to keep me busy for a weekend, just window channels and the repair pieces on the inside.
Do you just spray ospho all over it till you are ready? Spray wipe?
I was planning on using epoxy prime. I got a PPG system that does the expoxy, then you can do a sealer or high build. I got some more for this and have a bunch left over from my beetle. It’s good stuff. Idk, maybe I will upgrade from tractor paint for the finish but it does lay down super nice.
I guess if it’s not making it into paint this fall I will keep stripping it down 
I’m so ready to be done with body work, the welding I like but the rest… but it’s how I can afford a nice bus in the end so it’s not all bad.
Today I did a small project. I got the front seat covers and pads. They are my Christmas gifts I got early since my parents wanted me to make sure it was the right parts. But I stripped the old seat down, only one mouse nest in it someone put a jute mat over the springs so I left that. Someone put super soft 1in foam over the springs which wasn’t doing much. I’m not done yet, top cover is done but the bottom needs finishing. And the seats are from a 74 I’m pretty sure based on the vinyl pattern and headrest. The TMI vinyl matches the original door panels almost perfectly
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Ceckert64
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Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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your school bus is coming along fantastic! I mean your yellow limousine 
Not gonna lie, the body work looks great. nice seat color choice. much more appealing than black. You should have the entire bus powder coated in yellow   are you gonna go w/ taller meats? |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| chickensoup pt 2 wrote: |
your school bus is coming along fantastic! I mean your yellow limousine
Not gonna lie, the body work looks great. nice seat color choice. much more appealing than black. You should have the entire bus powder coated in yellow are you gonna go w/ taller meats? |
Maybe I can put a fold out stop sign on the side
Thanks! I have a ways to go on body work but it’s a lot better than it was. I went original color on the seats so that match my door cards. Also black vinyl suck in the summer. Don’t even mention the tires  I so badly want taller tire but don’t want to spend the money on them and regearing it or burning my engine up.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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so your telling me... This makes u jelly?
can you not go 1 size bigger? Even with your more powerful engine build? |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| chickensoup pt 2 wrote: |
so your telling me... This makes u jelly?
can you not go 1 size bigger? Even with your more powerful engine build? |
Yes. That is one of my favorite busses. Makes me consider painting mine red I could maybe do a bigger size but should probably have a smaller diameter for long trips. I could upgrade to 15 inch rims too. I guess I could try and see how it’d affect my CHT. The thing is that it slows down engine rpm for the same speed and adds load so more heat less cooling. But I do like the looks of that bus 
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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Ceckert64
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Joined: September 16, 2015
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Location: Manitowoc, WI
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DocNexil
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2021
Posts: 145
Location: Southern Utah
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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Great progress! I don't have much to add, but in talk of tires I've got the grabbers that I have been enjoying. Makes my bus look tough without going overboard, plus they fit at stock height. They do impact mpg, but I can't tell how much because I've had a few engines since getting the tires.
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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| I cant believe your so close to paint already. are you still going w/ tractor paint or r u going with a normal single or two stage system? |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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When using any kind of paint stripping chemicals make sure it doesn't get into seams.
It'll pop back out from under there and ruin new paint later.
The foil tape they use to seal ductwork in HVAC home heating works well to seal seams from stripper.
Regular tape will absorb it.. Doesn't help.
I've tried any and all stripping methods under the sun.
The best i found was a 'twisted knot' on an angle grinder.
a.k.a. 'mackage attacker'..
Just watch out that it doesn't get away from you.
OK to leave some factory paint, but be sure it's factory paint.
Yes, little tiny bits of rust hide in pits and the blaster doesn't seem to get them.
Soaking in phosphoric and hitting again is indeed the best course of action.
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: The 447th 1972 bus, A Sierra Yellow Westfalia Tin top build |
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I like those general grabbers! I thought they had stopped making those but I looked them up and found them.
I’m doing a high quality primer system but I think I will use tractor paint. I guess it depends on how much the actual paint cost.
I’m always concerned about the seams. One think I don’t like about chemical strippers. The citristrip has been working the last few days and a lot of paint came off.
Maybe it my imagination but the twisted knots, or some wire wheels seem to stretch the metal and warp it. Maybe I hold it in one spot too long, or sometimes it digs into the metal. I will use one on the roof since it’s so messed up. I’ve seen the picture before… painful to look at
No work done this week, it’s been crazy. I’ve been working 5 hours a day after school for a one week gig. It’s supposed to get to the 60s this weekend so I will be able to paint I have been seeing some snow flakes coming down while I was working.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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78BusGA
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Joined: February 01, 2017
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Location: Buford, Georgia
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