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Carburetor breather, Electronic choke
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glennj3cub
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:03 pm    Post subject: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

1973 Super Beetle, I checked the placement position of the choke mechanism today but I later realized that the choke is not closing initially so it is difficult to start smoothly.
Wondering how I can check, clean or adjust it?
Thanks,
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kpf
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

Check the owners manual for the correct starting procedure. You have to step on the throttle in order to let the choke rotate to its cold position. If thatís not the problem, then look here or in the Bentley manual to learn about the automatic choke and how to adjust it.
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glennj3cub
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

I don't have a Bentley manual but I know how to set the screw in the front. I think the butterfly does not lock in position, I'm thinking there may be a problem with the electrical parts. I'll look at it more tomorrow.
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glennj3cub
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

I don't have a Bentley manual but I know how to set the screw in the front. I think the butterfly does not lock in position, I'm thinking there may be a problem with the electrical parts. I'll look at it more tomorrow.
Thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

He wasn't talking about the Bentley, but just the glovebox owner's manual. And you can find a ton of them in theSamba Archives:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/type1.php

Can you easily move the choke flap by hand? (that's the little arm by the fast idle cam)

By the way , it's electric choke. No electronics involved (the former means just a plain heating element against a bimetallic spring, the latter implies logic/computer control systems)
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Xevin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

Does your engine compartment still like this from your gallery? If not, can you post a current picture?

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glennj3cub
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

The choke mechanism moves freely.
Iím away this morning. The set up is pretty much like the picture but I have the coil in place now. I had to extend the distributor/coil wires (black & red), and use the old coil distributor wire because the new one was too short.
I removed that vacuum hose from the left side of the carburetor to the breather & plugged it off.


Last edited by glennj3cub on Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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kpf
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

glennj3cub wrote:
I don't have a Bentley manual but I know how to set the screw in the front. I think the butterfly does not lock in position, I'm thinking there may be a problem with the electrical parts. I'll look at it more tomorrow.
Thanks

The Bentley manual is a must-have item for any VW owner, but I also posted a link to a website with a lot of free information. Check the adjustment procedure on that site because ďthe screw in the frontĒ sounds suspiciously wrong.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

A couple comments on the above pics:
    The hose running from the air cleaner to the carb is connected to the wrong vacuum port. The left side vacuum port on the carb is only used for vacuum ignition advance on the distributor. Since your distributor does not have a vacuum advance this left side port should be capped.
    The hose from the air cleaner should be connected to the intake manifold. I see a screw head on the left side of the intake neck. This should be removed and a nipple threaded in its place and the air cleaner housing hose connected here.

    The close up of the bottom of your air cleaner housing where it connects to the carb top appears to broken/cracked? Maybe it is just my eyes. Is there a leak at the top of the short neck at the bottom of the air cleaner? You don't want dirty air leaking into the carb airflow.

    The blue ignition coil in the last pic seems to be just hanging there on the top of the A/C compressor. It looks like there is a bracket on the fan housing but the HT wire running from the coil to the distributor is too short to allow the coil to be mounted there. I hope this has been fixed?


glennj3cub wrote:
1973 Super Beetle, I checked the placement position of the choke mechanism today but I later realized that the choke is not closing initially so it is difficult to start smoothly.
Wondering how I can check, clean or adjust it?

Adjust: First thing in the morning, before you have turned the ignition switch to the ON/RUN position, adjust the choke.
    Loosen the three screws on the choke housing
    Hold the throttle arm so the screw doesn't touch the fast idle cam
    Rotate the choke heating element until the choke butterfly is around 75% closed
    Snug the screws down to hold the choke element in place.


Test:
    Jam a screwdriver into the carb throttle mechanism to hold the throttle arm screw off the fast idle cam.
    Remove the green(?) points/condenser wire from the ignition coil #1 terminal. This disconnects the ignition coil to prevent it from overheating.
    Turn the ignition switch to the ON/RUN position and start a stop watch.
    Watch the choke butterfly and time how long it takes for the butterfly to rotate to the fully open (vertical) position. 5~10min is the norm. Just enough to warm up the engine.

If you need more choke time, rotate the choke heating element so the butterfly is further closed. If the choke stays ON too long, rotate the choke element so the butterfly is more open. Rotating the choke adjusts the time the choke remains ON. There is no adjustment for the fast idle speed.
You should expect that seasonally you will need to adjust the choke. In the winter the mornings will be colder which will close the choke butterfly more than in the summer; resulting in the choke remaining ON longer (probably too long). In the summer time, a choke adjusted for the winter will not remain ON long enough.


If you find that after adjusting the choke the choke butterfly never fully opens... it means the choke heating element is bad/old and needs to be replaced. Old choke coils loose their range of motion over time. They either remain ON for too short a period (engine never warms up) or the choke never fully turns OFF (butterfly never rotates into the vertical position). An indicator of this "old age" is the choke element index mark will be well outside the choke housing casting marks (humps).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

Great information for me. Work in progress. I got the coil in the permanent location installed now. I had to extend the wires & use the old coil wire because the new one was too short!
The breather is just sitting on the carburetor presently (not tight) but Iíll look at it.
I have to try and understand what was said about the breather hose needing a screw on adapter at the carburetor??
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

See if this helps visualize the air cleaner plumbing. Maybe itís the small picture on my iPhone but in your picture is the vacuum port on the manifold absent?

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disregard the arrow to my Chinese pulley nut Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

No it does not have a port for the breather on the manifold. This is my present set up. 8/14/20
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

Thank you so much for those instructions! I was happy to see the choke warmed up and moved pretty well within 5 minutes. She only needed a slight adjustment!
I cranked her up, exhaust stank and was dark on the left side at first.
Adjusting the carb screws some, I turned the mixture all the way in it would have cut off I believe but it didnít stop running quickly. The large one on top I screwed out to increase the idle speed. I need to get a tach.
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glennj3cub
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

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# 1, Pre set, # 2 post set less than 10 minutes & a slight adjustment!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

glennj3cub wrote:
No it does not have a port for the breather on the manifold. This is my present set up. 8/14/20
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I looked at the earlier pic more closely and what I thought was a plugged port on the left side of the intake neck was actually the throttle cable adjustment bolt in front of the intake. Sad

That vacuum hose you removed from the air cleaner housing is the source for activating the flapper in the air cleaner housing. Since you have disconnected it, you need to make sure the intake air flow from the snout on the right is not restricted. I'm not sure if the vacuum is used to close or open the flapper which diverts the incoming air flow thru either the silver hose connected between the air cleaner housing and the rear engine tin (hot air to warm up the engine faster), or the snout on the right of the air cleaner housing (cool air drawn in from the engine compartment vents). If the vacuum is used to close off the hot air path then your engine is now only sucking hot air from below the engine tin. This could cause your engine to run hotter/overheat.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

Yes , Iím not sure where a hose would go from the back right on the air filter. The forward one on the right is to the oil spout.
There is a Nipple on the right top of the cooling fan, I think I read it should connect to the charcoal canister under the right rear wheel well. Otherwise plug it off?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

glennj3cub wrote:
Yes , Iím not sure where a hose would go from the back right on the air filter. The forward one on the right is to the oil spout.
There is a Nipple on the right top of the cooling fan, I think I read it should connect to the carbon canister under the right rear wheel well. Otherwise plug it off?
The top right fitting on the fan shroud pushes air into the charcoal canister. The return hose from the carbon canister connects to the air cleaner housing. This hoes comes horizontally in from the right side of the below pic.

Here's a pretty good pic of a stock '74 engine compartment.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You can see the small hose from the center of the air cleaner housing runs to the side of the intake neck. If your intake doesn't have a port in the neck area, look at the left or right side DP end casting. Some came with a vacuum nipple. It will work the same.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

Very frustrated this afternoon! Connected the carburetor cable. Gas is again gurgling into the throat after cranking up, skipping. I guess flooding!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Carburetor breather, Electronic choke Reply with quote

glennj3cub wrote:
Very frustrated this afternoon! Connected the carburetor cable. Gas is again gurgling into the throat after cranking up, skipping. I guess flooding!

Do you mean gurgling down the throat after you run the engine a while and then shut it down? Could be a malfunctioning float valve. Might need cleaning or replacement. The float height should be verified and adjusted if needed.
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