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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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 Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:57 pm Post subject: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Gonna toss this out there...Has anyone ever removed window, gasket, and bright work all at once? Not by pushing from the inside with feet but maybe with a bunch of clips forcing the inner seal over the body frame/metal lip (from inside the car). Then simply pressing out with hands. The reason I ask is all my window seals and bright work are in wonderful condition and would like to reuse them. It all needs to come out for proper paint application. Then again if new seals are readily available I’ll just replace. I do see the front windshield as the big challenge.
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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I have never been able to do that except on a BRAND NEW seal. Therefore I have never done it on a type 4. There is probably only one place that sells new type 4 seals and they are in Holland.
The type 3 seal is very close in cross section if not exact. You will have to cut up and join several to get the right shape.
I have used a bus seal for the front. It works...takes some massaging...but not perfect in outer profile.
If they are original seals...you will not get them out this way. The newest they could be is 1975.....that means 45 years old. They may look great but they are not. But you money they are leaking in each lower corner of the front windshield.
I will see if I can find the links to the Dutch guys. Ray |
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MarcVoss
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2019
Posts: 67
Location: DE, Munich
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
I will see if I can find the links to the Dutch guys. Ray |
Hi,
These seals aren‘t available any more.
But they will offer some for either plastic trim or without the slot for trims.
Then you can use the trim which is available for the beetle.
I have just ordered one for the front window and I think, you will not see the difference and maybe it has advantages when mounting it.
_________________
Best Regards from Germany, the origin country of Volkswagen.
Marc
Last edited by MarcVoss on Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Marc,
I have never liked the plastic trim but if I have no choice that’s what I will use. Who did you order from? Have you used their rubber in the past for 411/412 applications?
Machs gut,
Bill |
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MarcVoss
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2019
Posts: 67
Location: DE, Munich
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Bill,
No, it is the first seal I bought.
Today I ordered a new front window, delivery time about 4 month. (My own christmas present ?)
The contact is info(at) keverspecialist.nl
_________________
Best Regards from Germany, the origin country of Volkswagen.
Marc |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| MarcVoss wrote: |
Bill,
No, it is the first seal I bought.
Today I ordered a new front window, delivery time about 4 month. (My own christmas present ?)
The contact is info(at) keverspecialist.nl |
Yes.....thats the company!
Ray |
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hulken
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Marc,
I have never liked the plastic trim but if I have no choice that’s what I will use. Who did you order from? Have you used their rubber in the past for 411/412 applications?
Machs gut,
Bill |
I've had a new front windshield mounted. The "glassguy" said the seal was nice and a good fit.
_________________
Follow me on Instagram: vw412carrera |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Hulken,
Where did you get your new windshield? Thanks for the beautiful pictures and the valuable information! Looks really good.
Bill |
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Hawker
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Great photos, indeed! 👍🏻😁
To answer the original question. You would damage the trim trying to remove it from the seal whilst still installed in the car. The trim is inserted into the slot in the seal, prior to installation. The compression of the seal, in the window aperture and against the windscreen geometrically locks the trim into position. The trim doesn’t lock the windscreen! This applies to metal or plastic rubber seal trim inserts.
This applies to VW’s as far back as 1949/50 when export/deluxe windscreen trim was first introduced. Someone at some point in the past has tried to remove just the trim on my windscreen seal, and damaged it.
BR,
Rob |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Hawker,
I do not want to pull the original trim out from the seal while still in the car. I floated the question/idea originally if one could remove the window, seal, and trim at the same time... as one unit. Then after paint if my window/seal/trim is in good shape reinstall it as a complete unit just as I had taken it out. The question was, is there a way by using a bunch of clips to hold the rubber seal over the window frame lip. Then pushing the whole unit out as one to be reused (if in good shape).
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Hawker,
I do not want to pull the original trim out from the seal while still in the car. I floated the question/idea originally if one could remove the window, seal, and trim at the same time... as one unit. Then after paint if my window/seal/trim is in good shape reinstall it as a complete unit just as I had taken it out. The question was, is there a way by using a bunch of clips to hold the rubber seal over the window frame lip. Then pushing the whole unit out as one to be reused (if in good shape).
Bill |
having removed quite a few....original...windshields, windows and seals from 411 and 412....as I noted....its not likely you will be able to remove it that way.
These seals are EPDM. While that is just about the best rubber for UV....over time they shrink slightly and increase in hardness/durometer...by at least 2 orders of magnitude.
Typically they are about 45 durometer when installed new. Most are pushing 75-80 durometer now. They dont really crack that much in place....but they are too hard to flex easily.
Tires are about 55-60 durometer. Basic nylon is about 90-95 durometer. Hard leather belts are about 80 durometer. This is very common to 45 year old windshield rubber.
Normal removal procedure to prevent glass cracking...is to remove the outer lip complete with a razor blade.
Not trying to talk you out of anything....but I have been there with US based 411 and 412. We have far too much heat, cold and rain combined here to get seals still pliable after 45 years on outdoor stored vehicles.
Just be sure you have spare glass if you want to try this. Ray |
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hulken
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Hulken,
Where did you get your new windshield? Thanks for the beautiful pictures and the valuable information! Looks really good.
Bill |
The guy who swapped it for me ordered it. It was in stock here in Norway. He said it is of quite recent production due to the information he read on it.
_________________
Follow me on Instagram: vw412carrera |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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Just an update on window rubber seals. The Keverspecialist people in Holland got back to me. They do not offer the seals that can use the bright work...plastic or stainless. They only have "Cal look " type. I need the "bright work" seals. Any other ideas out there. I will not pull my windows out if I can't get them. Damn!
Bill |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| hulken wrote: |
| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Marc,
I have never liked the plastic trim but if I have no choice that’s what I will use. Who did you order from? Have you used their rubber in the past for 411/412 applications?
Machs gut,
Bill |
I've had a new front windshield mounted. The "glassguy" said the seal was nice and a good fit.
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Interesting Hulken, the windshield seems to be made by Xygna which I believe is available in North America as well. It would be interesting to call up some glass shops and see what they can order. Also, what are your mirrors? They really fit the race theme of the car. Edit: it looks like similar universal race mirrors aren't too hard to find.
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan
Last edited by ubercrap on Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Just an update on window rubber seals. The Keverspecialist people in Holland got back to me. They do not offer the seals that can use the bright work...plastic or stainless. They only have "Cal look " type. I need the "bright work" seals. Any other ideas out there. I will not pull my windows out if I can't get them. Damn!
Bill |
While its really nice to have the chrome trim......dont get hung up on it. In my 42 years of working on type 4 cars.....I have only seen three offerings of available properly molded windhield and window gaskets for type 4 cars.
1. The guys in Arkansas from over a decade ago that had a few sets made custom to restore two cars.
2. A few sets of NOS xrom Europe oknly....one source.
3. These from Kieverspecialist.
My advice is to get it while its available with or without chrome trim.
The damage that is caused by the dront windhsield leakage alone is some of the worat damage that gets done to these cars ahort of an actual accident.
It rusts the dront firewall, tbe floorboards, the base of the A pillars and the front pan areas around the tar boards.
Ray |
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hulken
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Removing windows ‘73 wagon |
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| ubercrap wrote: |
Interesting Hulken, the windshield seems to be made by Xygna which I believe is available in North America as well. It would be interesting to call up some glass shops and see what they can order. Also, what are your mirrors? They really fit the race theme of the car. Edit: it looks like similar universal race mirrors aren't too hard to find. |
Windshield is made by Xygna http://xygna.com/auto/home/
Mirrors are as you say universal race mirrors mounted with the base from the original mirrors.
_________________
Follow me on Instagram: vw412carrera |
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Hawker
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2012
Posts: 124
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