| Author |
Message |
Pete AK
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Wasilla Alaska
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:12 pm Post subject: Throw out bearing question |
 |
|
Hey, My son bought into a can of worms and we are going through it a wrong bolt at a time!
Went to adjust his clutch, as there was zero play in his clutch. Found that the clutch was partially engaged just to allow the cable to connect through the arm!!
Little back story, we bought this 69 bug with literally a brand new drivetrain. Engine and transmission have zero hours. With everything else so poorly executed on this poor thing, it was time to pull the engine and verify everything looked ok and was installed correctly.
Pressure plate and disc are new like the rest. Other that being way over torqued, everything looked ok. Then I noticed three studs behind the throw out bearing that the back of the bearing is making contact with. It seems to me that the studs may have been for a different application?
Would someone take a look at these pictures and give me some guidance? Been a heavy diesel mechanic my entire carrier, never been around a VW in my life. 17 year old sons project with me before he graduates. Thanks for the help All!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
The transaxle has been replaced with a 1972 or newer unit. These later transaxles use a different throw out bearing that rides on a guide tube and are paired with a pressure plate without a center ring. Previous transaxles use a throw out bearing without a guide tube and are paired with a pressure plate with a center ring. In the unlikely event the guide tube studs are interfering with the TOB operation, you can unscrew and remove them from the transaxle.
Late trans guide tube and throw out bearing:
Pressure plate without ring:
Early trans without guide tube and matching throw out bearing:
Pressure plate with ring:
If you have the correct matching throw out bearing and pressure plate, then the most likely reason for the lack of available clutch cable adjustment is the cable is too short. You can either buy and affix an extender in this case, or measure the current cable and order the next longer version.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
| Or just buy the tube its like $6 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jimbug57
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 817
Location: Mid Michigan
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
Mukluk:
Do both versions use the same clutch disk?
Thanks - Jim
_________________
Repeat after me "I am smarter than metal!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
| db69 wrote: |
| Or just buy the tube its like $6 |
Unfortunately it is not as simple as just that. To convert back to the '72-later style TO bearing the entire release arm would also need to be replaced and a new later style TO bearing would be needed. You can see this if you compare the pics above.
As far as the pressure plate, most PP that come with the centering ring for the earlier style TO bearing allow for easy removal of the centering ring and will then work with the later style TO bearing. As long as your PP looks like the one pictured above it can be converted to either early/late style.
I don't think swapping the TO bearing will help. I'm thinking that because you have a later model transmission you need a longer clutch cable? Here is the link to the longer (2282mm) clutch cable for '72-later Beetles.
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D111%2D721%2D335%2DC
The clutch cable for cars up to '71-1/2 was only 2262mm (shorter).
You may also want to get the clutch cable shortening kit in case the later cable is too long:
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D2568
Normally, the transmission dictates the type of TO bearing & release arm needed. The TO bearing dictates the type of PP to use. But in your case the PO chose to use a different TO bearing than the transmission was designed for.
My one tip, if you decide to use the early style TO bearing like you have now, safety wire the bearing spring clips to the release arms to prevent them from popping off. There are a few threads on how to do this. Just do a quick search and tie them up before you put it all back together.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
| My apologies I didn’t notice you have an early cross shaft on a late trans. Wow. Maybe you can remove studs and make it work I have never been down that road. If it were me I would change the cross shaft, put the slide collar on and use a late throw out bearing, with pressure plate without center ring( most can be removed). This would get it back to original form and make finding parts and adjustment easier. Sorry ashman your quick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
Yes, the 200mm clutches all use the same disc. It's matching up the pressure plate to throwout bearing to transmission 1971 and later that is critical.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
| Jimbug57 wrote: |
Mukluk:
Do both versions use the same clutch disk?
Thanks - Jim |
Generally speaking, yes.
The clutch disc used doesn't vary based on the version of pressure plate and TOB fitted, a sprung or an unsprung disc of the appropriate diameter can be used with either version. Disc compatibility only comes into play when discussing the diameter, either 180mm or 200mm, which is based on the size of the flywheel opening. The 180mm disc is normally used on 1300 and smaller engines while the 200mm is normally used on 1500 and larger engines -- this rule of thumb applies to probably 99% of the Beetle engines out there. A simple measurement taken of the disc and flywheel opening diameters will settle any question there may be in this case.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pete AK
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Wasilla Alaska
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
Wow! The information you all shared with me is awesome! This was my first post on the Samba. Wasn’t sure what to expect. Thanks to everyone for the photos, links, and details!!
I think we will try to run with the older style clutch that’s in it, as it’s here and new, along with shipping parts to Alaska costs as much as shipping to the moon!
I’ll remove the studs, as the TO bearing is making contact, wire in the retaining springs, and order the cable for the 72+ transmission. Thanks again for All for your help and detailed information! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scdevon
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2017
Posts: 163
Location: Rockies
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Throw out bearing question |
|
|
X2 just get the longer cable and you'll be fine. You probably have the
3168mm cable and you need the 3215mm (or whatever) cable for the 1971+ cars.
They cost about $11 bucks.
_________________
1970 Beetle 1600 DP |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
