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ctroutma Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2005 Posts: 158 Location: Atlanta, Ga
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:52 am Post subject: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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I was working through replacing my rear brakes and went to put on my new set of shoes that I ordered for my 65 and the new set seem to have the hole for the lower spring in the wrong place. It is offset a bit further from the center of the wheel, so I can't get the spring in place. I found one pair of shoes I had ordered 5 or so years ago and they have the hole closer in.
Is this a common problem, or am I ordering the wrong shoes?
_________________ 1965 EZ Camper |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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New brake shoe meet mr. drill.
Problem solved. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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ctroutma Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2005 Posts: 158 Location: Atlanta, Ga
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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Lind wrote: |
New brake shoe meet mr. drill.
Problem solved. |
Thought that might be the solution, but wasn't sure that drilling critical parts was a good idea. Willing to try it as long as I'm not the first! _________________ 1965 EZ Camper |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14216 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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The one with the AZ17L looks correct.
The hole should be 1/2 way both edges.
Put the spring on first on both shoes, rotate the wheel cylinder slot on one side such that you can walk the brake shoe pair over and put one bottom side on, flip that side up to the adjuster part, then pull hard on the bottom and get the other side into the wheel cylinder slot, final pull the top into the other adjuster.
Center them and pop in the top spring and the e-brake cable. |
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ctroutma Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2005 Posts: 158 Location: Atlanta, Ga
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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BarryL wrote: |
The one with the AZ17L looks correct.
The hole should be 1/2 way both edges.
Put the spring on first on both shoes, rotate the wheel cylinder slot on one side such that you can walk the brake shoe pair over and put one bottom side on, flip that side up to the adjuster part, then pull hard on the bottom and get the other side into the wheel cylinder slot, final pull the top into the other adjuster.
Center them and pop in the top spring and the e-brake cable. |
Not sure if I have the wrong springs or what, but they won't fit on the shoes with the holes spaced further. They fit just fine on the older pair of replacement shoes I had with the holes closer to center. I'll snap some pics tonight of full set up. Another thing I am working with/against, is a PO custom job e-brake push bar that might be affecting as well. _________________ 1965 EZ Camper |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14216 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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Are your springs mounted like this?
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ctroutma Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2005 Posts: 158 Location: Atlanta, Ga
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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BarryL wrote: |
Are your springs mounted like this?
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Yes, and I was able to get them mounted. Thanks for the step by step! _________________ 1965 EZ Camper |
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David Raistrick Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 533 Location: Geneva, Florida
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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so I just ran into this - I've done a lot of pre-71 rear brakes (and some 73+..), including at least 5 sets on this one 66 bus.
The new shoes I ordered were from busdepot in 2018 (many things including deaths in the family postponed the install).
My old shoes (including 4 old sets sitting in the pile) all have the hole near the edge as pictured above.
The new shoes have it spaced back further - and when assembled with my OG springs (I'm second owner), this causes the shoes to buckle away from the backing plate, instead of sitting flat. (I haven't tried to fully assemble, since parts are in the blaster and being painted..)
This article in the bay forum suggests that 64-70 and 71 used different shoes - and I wonder if everyone is just selling 71 shoes now? EDIT - no, '71 shoes are wider (55mm vs 45mm). but maybe the mfrs have started using the same center section?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=595632
I wish the image was a bit clearer - but the shoe on the left has red lines, text and dots that point out the two locations:
I might dig around to see if I still have an old "new" hardware kit that I bought (and didn't use. perhaps because it didn't fit worth a damn?) to see if the springs are a different length... _________________ ...david - '66 SO-44 #231
Last edited by David Raistrick on Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Raistrick Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 533 Location: Geneva, Florida
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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yeah, the old "new" hardware I have is the same. but I only have one left - I remember why I pulled them off. one broke.
Bentley agrees with the idea of the more inboard holes..
the 71 positioning causes these springs to not sit right (and man, it made for a fight to get it installed)
I noticed that Woody's spring is....different. the cross shaft sits higher (my OG springs, in the right placed holes, the cross shaft sits close to the ebrake cross bar, instead of sitting above it)
_________________ ...david - '66 SO-44 #231 |
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David Raistrick Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 533 Location: Geneva, Florida
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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not that it's authoritative, and I haven't tried to go look in the parts books myself - but WCM says '71 are 211-609-537J and 64-70 are 211-609-537E
they only show one spring kit, though, 64-79 (and it includes both the single and double upper spring for 72/73)
dug further - '71 shoes are 55mm wide, 64-70 are 45mm. so that's not it. I did see hardware kits with the lower spring that has the lower cross section (like mine), and the middle cross section (like woody's). there's definitely something that just doesnt work with my springs with the wider spacing of the holes.
I might just drill them. Or I might order a set from someone who pictures them with the right holes....
update: i tried drilling them. it doesnt work to my satisfaction - the second hole causes the tip of the spring to drop into the hole, and you don't get adequate pre-tension on the spring. (as opposed to too much tension and a twist with the wrong holes for the spring).
so, one set of italian shoes wasted.
I'm ordering a set from a vendor who pictures the right shoes - we'll see what I get. Also ordering a hardware kit that pictures the other style of spring. edit: that set was from CIP1, which resulted in a made in china set of shoes with....the "wrong" spacing.
But CIP1's hardware kit had the other springs. I ended up using my italian/bus depot shoes with the "wrong" holes (the newly drilled holes didnt interfere using those) and the different springs. still a PITA to assemble, but it seems to work. Disappointing, but what can you do. _________________ ...david - '66 SO-44 #231
Last edited by David Raistrick on Fri May 21, 2021 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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David Raistrick wrote: |
Or I might order a set from someone who pictures them with the right holes.... |
Or just send your old correct shoe tables out to be relined...
https://www.brakematerialsandparts.com/brakerelining.htm |
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David Raistrick Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004 Posts: 533 Location: Geneva, Florida
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? |
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I sent out a request for quote on their website last week - if I get a reply, I'll share it.
definitely something to consider for the future - if the price is reasonable I might just send my stack of cores in. wish I still had a source of NOS german shoes....sadly leaking axles seals and leaking wheel cyls have combined to eat through my stash.
edit: got a response (took one month, but they apologized..)
"We estimate the cost to be $20.00 each brake shoe to reline (plus shipping and a $20 shop fee per order). "
So $100+shipping for one axle. _________________ ...david - '66 SO-44 #231 |
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