Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Wrong Rear Brake Shoes?
Forum Index -> Split Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ctroutma
Samba Member


Joined: October 13, 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Atlanta, Ga
ctroutma is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

I was working through replacing my rear brakes and went to put on my new set of shoes that I ordered for my 65 and the new set seem to have the hole for the lower spring in the wrong place. It is offset a bit further from the center of the wheel, so I can't get the spring in place. I found one pair of shoes I had ordered 5 or so years ago and they have the hole closer in.

Is this a common problem, or am I ordering the wrong shoes?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1965 EZ Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Lind
Samba Member


Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9905
Location: idaho
Lind is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

New brake shoe meet mr. drill.
Problem solved.
_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ctroutma
Samba Member


Joined: October 13, 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Atlanta, Ga
ctroutma is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
New brake shoe meet mr. drill.
Problem solved.


Thought that might be the solution, but wasn't sure that drilling critical parts was a good idea. Willing to try it as long as I'm not the first!
_________________
1965 EZ Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BarryL Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14216
Location: Casa de Oro, California
BarryL is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

The one with the AZ17L looks correct.

The hole should be 1/2 way both edges.

Put the spring on first on both shoes, rotate the wheel cylinder slot on one side such that you can walk the brake shoe pair over and put one bottom side on, flip that side up to the adjuster part, then pull hard on the bottom and get the other side into the wheel cylinder slot, final pull the top into the other adjuster.

Center them and pop in the top spring and the e-brake cable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ctroutma
Samba Member


Joined: October 13, 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Atlanta, Ga
ctroutma is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
The one with the AZ17L looks correct.

The hole should be 1/2 way both edges.

Put the spring on first on both shoes, rotate the wheel cylinder slot on one side such that you can walk the brake shoe pair over and put one bottom side on, flip that side up to the adjuster part, then pull hard on the bottom and get the other side into the wheel cylinder slot, final pull the top into the other adjuster.

Center them and pop in the top spring and the e-brake cable.


Not sure if I have the wrong springs or what, but they won't fit on the shoes with the holes spaced further. They fit just fine on the older pair of replacement shoes I had with the holes closer to center. I'll snap some pics tonight of full set up. Another thing I am working with/against, is a PO custom job e-brake push bar that might be affecting as well.
_________________
1965 EZ Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BarryL Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14216
Location: Casa de Oro, California
BarryL is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

Are your springs mounted like this?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ctroutma
Samba Member


Joined: October 13, 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Atlanta, Ga
ctroutma is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Are your springs mounted like this?


Yes, and I was able to get them mounted. Thanks for the step by step!
_________________
1965 EZ Camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
David Raistrick
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 533
Location: Geneva, Florida
David Raistrick is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

so I just ran into this - I've done a lot of pre-71 rear brakes (and some 73+..), including at least 5 sets on this one 66 bus.

The new shoes I ordered were from busdepot in 2018 (many things including deaths in the family postponed the install).

My old shoes (including 4 old sets sitting in the pile) all have the hole near the edge as pictured above.

The new shoes have it spaced back further - and when assembled with my OG springs (I'm second owner), this causes the shoes to buckle away from the backing plate, instead of sitting flat. (I haven't tried to fully assemble, since parts are in the blaster and being painted..)


This article in the bay forum suggests that 64-70 and 71 used different shoes - and I wonder if everyone is just selling 71 shoes now? EDIT - no, '71 shoes are wider (55mm vs 45mm). but maybe the mfrs have started using the same center section?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=595632

I wish the image was a bit clearer - but the shoe on the left has red lines, text and dots that point out the two locations:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I might dig around to see if I still have an old "new" hardware kit that I bought (and didn't use. perhaps because it didn't fit worth a damn?) to see if the springs are a different length...
_________________
...david - '66 SO-44 #231


Last edited by David Raistrick on Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
David Raistrick
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 533
Location: Geneva, Florida
David Raistrick is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

yeah, the old "new" hardware I have is the same. but I only have one left - I remember why I pulled them off. one broke. Wink


Bentley agrees with the idea of the more inboard holes..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



the 71 positioning causes these springs to not sit right (and man, it made for a fight to get it installed)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I noticed that Woody's spring is....different. the cross shaft sits higher (my OG springs, in the right placed holes, the cross shaft sits close to the ebrake cross bar, instead of sitting above it)




Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
...david - '66 SO-44 #231
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
David Raistrick
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 533
Location: Geneva, Florida
David Raistrick is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

not that it's authoritative, and I haven't tried to go look in the parts books myself - but WCM says '71 are 211-609-537J and 64-70 are 211-609-537E

they only show one spring kit, though, 64-79 (and it includes both the single and double upper spring for 72/73)

dug further - '71 shoes are 55mm wide, 64-70 are 45mm. so that's not it. I did see hardware kits with the lower spring that has the lower cross section (like mine), and the middle cross section (like woody's). there's definitely something that just doesnt work with my springs with the wider spacing of the holes.

I might just drill them. Or I might order a set from someone who pictures them with the right holes....

update: i tried drilling them. it doesnt work to my satisfaction - the second hole causes the tip of the spring to drop into the hole, and you don't get adequate pre-tension on the spring. (as opposed to too much tension and a twist with the wrong holes for the spring).

so, one set of italian shoes wasted.

I'm ordering a set from a vendor who pictures the right shoes - we'll see what I get. Also ordering a hardware kit that pictures the other style of spring. edit: that set was from CIP1, which resulted in a made in china set of shoes with....the "wrong" spacing.

But CIP1's hardware kit had the other springs. I ended up using my italian/bus depot shoes with the "wrong" holes (the newly drilled holes didnt interfere using those) and the different springs. still a PITA to assemble, but it seems to work. Disappointing, but what can you do.
_________________
...david - '66 SO-44 #231


Last edited by David Raistrick on Fri May 21, 2021 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ToolBox
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
ToolBox is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

David Raistrick wrote:
Or I might order a set from someone who pictures them with the right holes....


Or just send your old correct shoe tables out to be relined...

https://www.brakematerialsandparts.com/brakerelining.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
David Raistrick
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 533
Location: Geneva, Florida
David Raistrick is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Wrong Rear Brake Shoes? Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:
David Raistrick wrote:
Or I might order a set from someone who pictures them with the right holes....


Or just send your old correct shoe tables out to be relined...

https://www.brakematerialsandparts.com/brakerelining.htm


I sent out a request for quote on their website last week - if I get a reply, I'll share it.

definitely something to consider for the future - if the price is reasonable I might just send my stack of cores in. wish I still had a source of NOS german shoes....sadly leaking axles seals and leaking wheel cyls have combined to eat through my stash.


edit: got a response (took one month, but they apologized..)

"We estimate the cost to be $20.00 each brake shoe to reline (plus shipping and a $20 shop fee per order). "

So $100+shipping for one axle.
_________________
...david - '66 SO-44 #231
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Split Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.