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Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type)
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pdm777
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

I have a tiico conversion.

Looking for someone with experience who can
evaluate what I have, and advise about upgrades.
Possibly looking for a performance rebuilt long block,
or top end rebuild.

Fresno, CA (central valley)
Sacramento to LA would be the area I'm looking in.

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pdm777
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Anyone?????

Are all the VW mechanics from the 90's retired???

Same basic engine as VW golf, etc.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Ship it to South Florida, we can do whatever you want. Seems in Ca, if you want an upgrade VW inline engine, I believe Stephens in Ca. is the way to go. No affiliation or experience, but they have a 1.8T Carb certified.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Peace Vans in Seattle installed mine. What wrong with it, or can it be done with photos?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

pdm777 wrote:
I have a tiico conversion.

Looking for someone with experience who can
evaluate what I have, and advise about upgrades.
Possibly looking for a performance rebuilt long block,
or top end rebuild.

Fresno, CA (central valley)
Sacramento to LA would be the area I'm looking in.


That Tiico is bolted to the Vanagon automatic transmission? That might have a bearing on power upgrade.

The Tiico email list is somewhat active. Maybe someone on that list is local to your area?

Awfully hard to say via text but depending on the performance you're looking for, the Tiico may not be a good platform for that. But, from what I've read, if it's properly sorted out, e.g. has the latest ECU etc., it might do ok power wise for your needs.

Neil.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

There is a guy in Eugene that has put a few like that together.
I think his place is called No Name Garage
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khughes
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

The photo shows a bone stock Tiico, with the original Tiico fuel rail designed for WBX injectors. Also the "slab" accessory plate. The limitation is the fuel injection system as far as significant HP boost goes. You can certainly improve performance and driveability (assuming there's nothing mechanically wrong with the head or short block) by adding:
    E-code ECU from FAS (http://www.foreignautosupply.com/parts-accessories/9-2lr-tiico-conversion-ecu-rsu-906-258e/) which will require upgrading to a 4-wire O2 sensor (if you have a 1, 2, or 3 wire), A2 fuel rail and injectors (or the one FAS supplies);
    Ditching the Tiico accessory plate and going with an A3 serpentine setup (get the whole enchilada from a boneyard)

That will get the most performance out the "stock" Tiico configuration. If you do have mechanical issues, FAS does sell brand new heads, and they routinely build short and long block 2LR (Tiico) replacements, including with upgraded Wiseco forged pistons, etc. Being in CA limits your choices for bolt in gas engine replacements but you can call them to see current options. As mentioned, a 1.8T is a nice option if you don't mind raising the engine lid.
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pdm777
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Looks like perhaps a valve issue in #4.
Who is a reputable shop for rebuilding the head?

I'm seeing compression numbers of: 125,118,118,90
It runs great.
The plugs all look consistent, if a bit white from lean/heat. (see pics)
I really want to know how to get it to run richer.

I ordered a leak down tester and that's the next step.

I'm not interested in the 1.8T conversion.
~$20K all in is too much for an old westy.

I am fine with the Tiico engine, it is smooth and revs high,
simple to work on. and so far very reliable.

If I take the head off, I'd be interested in what can be done
'while i'm in there' to increase power and reliability.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

A 2.0 with 10:1 compression should be around 180- 200 psi on the compression. I’d suggest looking at Autotech and Techtonics if they are still in business. You should be able to get 150hp with some compression, head work and a mild cam.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
A 2.0 with 10:1 compression should be around 180- 200 psi on the compression. I’d suggest looking at Autotech and Techtonics if they are still in business. You should be able to get 150hp with some compression, head work and a mild cam.


Yes, assuming you had all plugs pulled, and the throttle wide open, and a fully charged battery, around 180psig would be the expectation. I will say though that mine, with 50K on it, had 175 to 185psig compression, but when checked for leak down, #1 had just a touch below 20%, and it was clearly the rings. Compression doesn't tell the whole story, but if the values you got are "real", then there are some serious issues. Not to disparage, but those numbers look like a compression test pulling one plug at a time. BTDT in the midst of brainfart...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Techtonics if they are still in business.

They're still very much in business. Call, email or check their website
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pdm777
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Test done with all plugs pulled, and the throttle wide open.

The idea of the rings leaking that much compression
would beg the question, if Yes, why is there no oil smoke screen
from exhaust and oil consumption is normal ???

It was a cold engine.

I will borrow a second compression tester
and warm it up first.

Got the leak down tester today.
that's also next.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

How about a 2.0 with a 16 valve head?

Compression tests and cylinder leak down tests should be done on a engine at temp for best results.

You also have to watch cylinder leak down percentages. I'd like to see less than 3% on my race engines, but what is 3% or 20%? Of what? It leaks or it doesn't to a point. 100% leakage would be a dead cylinder. 20% is still pretty sealed when you consider how much time the valves spend open at 4000 rpm anyhow.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Not many mechanics like to work on these. They were the go-to conversion 20 years ago, but they've been superseded by the various other options. Part of the problem is that they're hybrid engines that were never used in the North American market, only in South Africa, and they have ECUs made by Motorola that never existed here.

Stephen's AutoHaus won't do too much on these, nor will BusLab and the others.

Your best bet is to call Foreign Auto Supply in Harpswell, Maine. Believe it or not, they're apparently the only people in the country who still support these old engines.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
How about a 2.0 with a 16 valve head?

Compression tests and cylinder leak down tests should be done on a engine at temp for best results.

You also have to watch cylinder leak down percentages. I'd like to see less than 3% on my race engines, but what is 3% or 20%? Of what? It leaks or it doesn't to a point. 100% leakage would be a dead cylinder. 20% is still pretty sealed when you consider how much time the valves spend open at 4000 rpm anyhow.


It depends a lot on where the leak is. 20% due to an exhaust valve would be an issue IME. If it's all past the rings, and cylinders are equal, then it's likely just normal wear, but "fixing" it likely won't bring any noticeable power gain if the compression is OK (which it isn't in the OP's case).

In my case, with a Tiico with less than 50K on it, I had compression from 180-185 in all cylinders, leak down of 3-5% in #2, #3, and #4, with 20% past the rings in #1. So either it was a poor build to start with, or there were impending ring issues in that cylinder. It ran fine as well, but in my case I pretty much hated the Tiico from the get go so that was the nail in the coffin for me as far as keeping it.

For everyone of us who hated the beasts, there were others who loved theirs and had few/no issues. But they are not a VW factory built engine, they were produced by Remtec in South Africa, a big rebuilder there. Like most rebuilders the unit to unit quality can really vary. And the Tiico is basically a stroked 1.8L - a rebuilt 2LR 1.8L block, with all new internal parts. Higher rod angle due to the increased stroke in the shorter 1.8L block causes them to be 'buzzier' than an ABA or other taller block 2L motors. Like any engine, if they're built well and installed properly there's no reason they can't run well and last a long time. It's the "If" where the gremlins reside.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

khughes wrote:
.....they are not a VW factory built engine, they were produced by Remtec in South Africa, a big rebuilder there. Like most rebuilders the unit to unit quality can really vary. .... It's the "If" where the gremlins reside.


This explains much more clearly as to why I qualified my reply with "may".

For some reason I thought the OP was working on a new to him van with Tiico but it seems he's dealing with the Tiico listed in his sig so it's a known entity.

To me, it might be "false economy" to start with the Tiico block if wanting to improve performance "while in there" doing something like head work. I'd be far more inclined to start with a factory bored block, stock rods etc. IDK if the ABA block would cause the Tiico intake to interfere with the engine bay metal but if not, I'd start with an ABA block. Or, if one could find one, (they're rare like hens teeth) an Audi 3A "bubble" block might be a good place to start; it's shorter than the ABA.

Neil.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
This explains much more clearly as to why I qualified my reply with "may".

For some reason I thought the OP was working on a new to him van with Tiico but it seems he's dealing with the Tiico listed in his sig so it's a known entity.

To me, it might be "false economy" to start with the Tiico block if wanting to improve performance "while in there" doing something like head work. I'd be far more inclined to start with a factory bored block, stock rods etc. IDK if the ABA block would cause the Tiico intake to interfere with the engine bay metal but if not, I'd start with an ABA block. Or, if one could find one, (they're rare like hens teeth) an Audi 3A "bubble" block might be a good place to start; it's shorter than the ABA.

Neil.


If the OP is looking for any substantial increase in performance, talking to Jon at FAS would be the best option. I also originally thought a new purchase was being discussed, oh well. But I don't believe the ECU, in any of its' incarnations, is really tunable to handle any significant HP increase (Jon knows the capability in depth). With the Tiico Motronic FI, there are some real limitations like no crank/cam position sensor, no MAF capability (it uses manifold absolute pressure and temp, with RPM and throttle angle to calculate mass airflow), and distributor differences (although I think Techtonics has an adapter for an ABA block).

As for the 3A's, I think there are at least a half a dozen unicorns for every one of those beasts! I've seen pics of both, but never actually seen one in the wild Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

I had my van serviced at Stephans in SAC. Good guy to work with. He has some experience with inlines

http://h2ovanagon.com/
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

Somewhere I have a VW block boring plate I had made when I raced a Scirocco. I would rent it out if you decide to have a block bored. PM me if you go that route.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) Reply with quote

if you're heading for a NA build with vanagon in mind lots of options although the effort and expenses outweigh the bang for buck making it boosted!

Looking back at the thread, it read while the head is off. Short radius porting will allow the head to breathe better and increase torque. Add bigger valves, deck the head, match port the intake manifold to the head add a cam. I'd go mild nothing bigger than a 260 or even source out the caddy cam this was a euro grind used in the small delivery vehicles said to increase the low end grunt.
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