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pdm777 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2012 Posts: 348 Location: Clovis, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:41 pm Post subject: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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I have a tiico conversion.
Looking for someone with experience who can
evaluate what I have, and advise about upgrades.
Possibly looking for a performance rebuilt long block,
or top end rebuild.
Fresno, CA (central valley)
Sacramento to LA would be the area I'm looking in.
_________________ 1990 Westy Full Camper |
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pdm777 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2012 Posts: 348 Location: Clovis, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Anyone?????
Are all the VW mechanics from the 90's retired???
Same basic engine as VW golf, etc. _________________ 1990 Westy Full Camper |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Ship it to South Florida, we can do whatever you want. Seems in Ca, if you want an upgrade VW inline engine, I believe Stephens in Ca. is the way to go. No affiliation or experience, but they have a 1.8T Carb certified. _________________ ☮️ |
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Corwyn Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2009 Posts: 2238 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Peace Vans in Seattle installed mine. What wrong with it, or can it be done with photos? _________________ '90 White Westy ("The Longship")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604813&highlight=baja
"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~ |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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pdm777 wrote: |
I have a tiico conversion.
Looking for someone with experience who can
evaluate what I have, and advise about upgrades.
Possibly looking for a performance rebuilt long block,
or top end rebuild.
Fresno, CA (central valley)
Sacramento to LA would be the area I'm looking in. |
That Tiico is bolted to the Vanagon automatic transmission? That might have a bearing on power upgrade.
The Tiico email list is somewhat active. Maybe someone on that list is local to your area?
Awfully hard to say via text but depending on the performance you're looking for, the Tiico may not be a good platform for that. But, from what I've read, if it's properly sorted out, e.g. has the latest ECU etc., it might do ok power wise for your needs.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Tobias Duncan Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1391 Location: Taos NM
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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There is a guy in Eugene that has put a few like that together.
I think his place is called No Name Garage |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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The photo shows a bone stock Tiico, with the original Tiico fuel rail designed for WBX injectors. Also the "slab" accessory plate. The limitation is the fuel injection system as far as significant HP boost goes. You can certainly improve performance and driveability (assuming there's nothing mechanically wrong with the head or short block) by adding:
E-code ECU from FAS (http://www.foreignautosupply.com/parts-accessories/9-2lr-tiico-conversion-ecu-rsu-906-258e/) which will require upgrading to a 4-wire O2 sensor (if you have a 1, 2, or 3 wire), A2 fuel rail and injectors (or the one FAS supplies);
Ditching the Tiico accessory plate and going with an A3 serpentine setup (get the whole enchilada from a boneyard)
That will get the most performance out the "stock" Tiico configuration. If you do have mechanical issues, FAS does sell brand new heads, and they routinely build short and long block 2LR (Tiico) replacements, including with upgraded Wiseco forged pistons, etc. Being in CA limits your choices for bolt in gas engine replacements but you can call them to see current options. As mentioned, a 1.8T is a nice option if you don't mind raising the engine lid. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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pdm777 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2012 Posts: 348 Location: Clovis, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Looks like perhaps a valve issue in #4.
Who is a reputable shop for rebuilding the head?
I'm seeing compression numbers of: 125,118,118,90
It runs great.
The plugs all look consistent, if a bit white from lean/heat. (see pics)
I really want to know how to get it to run richer.
I ordered a leak down tester and that's the next step.
I'm not interested in the 1.8T conversion.
~$20K all in is too much for an old westy.
I am fine with the Tiico engine, it is smooth and revs high,
simple to work on. and so far very reliable.
If I take the head off, I'd be interested in what can be done
'while i'm in there' to increase power and reliability.
_________________ 1990 Westy Full Camper |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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A 2.0 with 10:1 compression should be around 180- 200 psi on the compression. I’d suggest looking at Autotech and Techtonics if they are still in business. You should be able to get 150hp with some compression, head work and a mild cam. _________________ ☮️ |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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MarkWard wrote: |
A 2.0 with 10:1 compression should be around 180- 200 psi on the compression. I’d suggest looking at Autotech and Techtonics if they are still in business. You should be able to get 150hp with some compression, head work and a mild cam. |
Yes, assuming you had all plugs pulled, and the throttle wide open, and a fully charged battery, around 180psig would be the expectation. I will say though that mine, with 50K on it, had 175 to 185psig compression, but when checked for leak down, #1 had just a touch below 20%, and it was clearly the rings. Compression doesn't tell the whole story, but if the values you got are "real", then there are some serious issues. Not to disparage, but those numbers look like a compression test pulling one plug at a time. BTDT in the midst of brainfart... _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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MarkWard wrote: |
Techtonics if they are still in business. |
They're still very much in business. Call, email or check their website |
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pdm777 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2012 Posts: 348 Location: Clovis, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Test done with all plugs pulled, and the throttle wide open.
The idea of the rings leaking that much compression
would beg the question, if Yes, why is there no oil smoke screen
from exhaust and oil consumption is normal ???
It was a cold engine.
I will borrow a second compression tester
and warm it up first.
Got the leak down tester today.
that's also next.
_________________ 1990 Westy Full Camper |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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How about a 2.0 with a 16 valve head?
Compression tests and cylinder leak down tests should be done on a engine at temp for best results.
You also have to watch cylinder leak down percentages. I'd like to see less than 3% on my race engines, but what is 3% or 20%? Of what? It leaks or it doesn't to a point. 100% leakage would be a dead cylinder. 20% is still pretty sealed when you consider how much time the valves spend open at 4000 rpm anyhow. _________________ ☮️ |
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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Not many mechanics like to work on these. They were the go-to conversion 20 years ago, but they've been superseded by the various other options. Part of the problem is that they're hybrid engines that were never used in the North American market, only in South Africa, and they have ECUs made by Motorola that never existed here.
Stephen's AutoHaus won't do too much on these, nor will BusLab and the others.
Your best bet is to call Foreign Auto Supply in Harpswell, Maine. Believe it or not, they're apparently the only people in the country who still support these old engines. |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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MarkWard wrote: |
How about a 2.0 with a 16 valve head?
Compression tests and cylinder leak down tests should be done on a engine at temp for best results.
You also have to watch cylinder leak down percentages. I'd like to see less than 3% on my race engines, but what is 3% or 20%? Of what? It leaks or it doesn't to a point. 100% leakage would be a dead cylinder. 20% is still pretty sealed when you consider how much time the valves spend open at 4000 rpm anyhow. |
It depends a lot on where the leak is. 20% due to an exhaust valve would be an issue IME. If it's all past the rings, and cylinders are equal, then it's likely just normal wear, but "fixing" it likely won't bring any noticeable power gain if the compression is OK (which it isn't in the OP's case).
In my case, with a Tiico with less than 50K on it, I had compression from 180-185 in all cylinders, leak down of 3-5% in #2, #3, and #4, with 20% past the rings in #1. So either it was a poor build to start with, or there were impending ring issues in that cylinder. It ran fine as well, but in my case I pretty much hated the Tiico from the get go so that was the nail in the coffin for me as far as keeping it.
For everyone of us who hated the beasts, there were others who loved theirs and had few/no issues. But they are not a VW factory built engine, they were produced by Remtec in South Africa, a big rebuilder there. Like most rebuilders the unit to unit quality can really vary. And the Tiico is basically a stroked 1.8L - a rebuilt 2LR 1.8L block, with all new internal parts. Higher rod angle due to the increased stroke in the shorter 1.8L block causes them to be 'buzzier' than an ABA or other taller block 2L motors. Like any engine, if they're built well and installed properly there's no reason they can't run well and last a long time. It's the "If" where the gremlins reside. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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khughes wrote: |
.....they are not a VW factory built engine, they were produced by Remtec in South Africa, a big rebuilder there. Like most rebuilders the unit to unit quality can really vary. .... It's the "If" where the gremlins reside. |
This explains much more clearly as to why I qualified my reply with "may".
For some reason I thought the OP was working on a new to him van with Tiico but it seems he's dealing with the Tiico listed in his sig so it's a known entity.
To me, it might be "false economy" to start with the Tiico block if wanting to improve performance "while in there" doing something like head work. I'd be far more inclined to start with a factory bored block, stock rods etc. IDK if the ABA block would cause the Tiico intake to interfere with the engine bay metal but if not, I'd start with an ABA block. Or, if one could find one, (they're rare like hens teeth) an Audi 3A "bubble" block might be a good place to start; it's shorter than the ABA.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Vanagon Nut wrote: |
This explains much more clearly as to why I qualified my reply with "may".
For some reason I thought the OP was working on a new to him van with Tiico but it seems he's dealing with the Tiico listed in his sig so it's a known entity.
To me, it might be "false economy" to start with the Tiico block if wanting to improve performance "while in there" doing something like head work. I'd be far more inclined to start with a factory bored block, stock rods etc. IDK if the ABA block would cause the Tiico intake to interfere with the engine bay metal but if not, I'd start with an ABA block. Or, if one could find one, (they're rare like hens teeth) an Audi 3A "bubble" block might be a good place to start; it's shorter than the ABA.
Neil. |
If the OP is looking for any substantial increase in performance, talking to Jon at FAS would be the best option. I also originally thought a new purchase was being discussed, oh well. But I don't believe the ECU, in any of its' incarnations, is really tunable to handle any significant HP increase (Jon knows the capability in depth). With the Tiico Motronic FI, there are some real limitations like no crank/cam position sensor, no MAF capability (it uses manifold absolute pressure and temp, with RPM and throttle angle to calculate mass airflow), and distributor differences (although I think Techtonics has an adapter for an ABA block).
As for the 3A's, I think there are at least a half a dozen unicorns for every one of those beasts! I've seen pics of both, but never actually seen one in the wild _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3533 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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I had my van serviced at Stephans in SAC. Good guy to work with. He has some experience with inlines
http://h2ovanagon.com/ |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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Somewhere I have a VW block boring plate I had made when I raced a Scirocco. I would rent it out if you decide to have a block bored. PM me if you go that route. _________________ ☮️ |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 983
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for mechanic w/ VW inline-4 knowledge (Tiico type) |
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if you're heading for a NA build with vanagon in mind lots of options although the effort and expenses outweigh the bang for buck making it boosted!
Looking back at the thread, it read while the head is off. Short radius porting will allow the head to breathe better and increase torque. Add bigger valves, deck the head, match port the intake manifold to the head add a cam. I'd go mild nothing bigger than a 260 or even source out the caddy cam this was a euro grind used in the small delivery vehicles said to increase the low end grunt. |
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