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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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JSMskater wrote: |
1971 viv wrote: |
I’m in the Boise area in Idaho. Maybe rebuilt might be a strong word. At least I wanted to drop it and check the cylinder heads. Probably not a full rebuild but as it’s all from the 70’s, I just want to see where it’s at. |
You can get a fairly good idea of that with a compression and leak down test. It will at least tell you how healthy the rings and valves/seats are. If you pull the valve covers off and perform a valve adjustment, you would certainly catch anything in the valve train/pushrod assembly that could be off/worn. Pulling and torquing the heads isn't a bad idea per se, it just introduces some new risks (like pulling a head stud) that may then necessitate a complete tear down, but if you're going that direction any way or want to for the hell of it I completely get it, BTDT. |
Agreed. I wouldn't open it up unless I had to. Some of those old German parts will be better than anything you can get today.
I've had an engine pull a couple of head studs, but then it had been over heated at least once before I got it. When I put a new engine in my 65 Notch, I went with an all aluminum case, and 8mm head studs. Going to that case brings it's own issues (extra weight, and heat, but better metal).
I've had 1 case that was rebuilt before, that when I rebuilt it, I pulled 4 head studs just trying to tighten up a head. Needless to say, it got completely torn down and had case savers installed, just so I could use it. The engine in my old 71 Notch I rebuilt completely. The case went to RIMCO (case savers, decked, and align bored), it got a new counter weighted crank, along with new bearings, recon rods, good used cam and a new 26mm oil pump. That engine ran very smooth. I had about 700 in parts in it, plus 3 days of assembly time. I've also rebuilt a few engines before, so I knew what needed to be done, and had some tools for rebuilding. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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1971 viv Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020 Posts: 68 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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That is super helpful. Thanks to both of you. I will first do a compression and leakdown test like you said. |
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1971 viv Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020 Posts: 68 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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If the engine is absolutely pouring oil where it is mated to the transmission, that warrants a rebuild, right? is there a seal that I could replace? The compression test was fine but not great. I think that the piston rings are wearing out. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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1971 viv wrote: |
If the engine is absolutely pouring oil where it is mated to the transmission, that warrants a rebuild, right? is there a seal that I could replace? The compression test was fine but not great. I think that the piston rings are wearing out. |
Yes, there is a seal back there between the case and the flywheel/flexplate.
That however doesn't warrant a rebuild. It does require that the engine be removed, so the seal can be replaced though. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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JSMskater Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006 Posts: 5362 Location: Murrieta California
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Bobnotch wrote: |
1971 viv wrote: |
If the engine is absolutely pouring oil where it is mated to the transmission, that warrants a rebuild, right? is there a seal that I could replace? The compression test was fine but not great. I think that the piston rings are wearing out. |
Yes, there is a seal back there between the case and the flywheel/flexplate.
That however doesn't warrant a rebuild. It does require that the engine be removed, so the seal can be replaced though. |
leaking rear main seals are basically a requirement of any aircooled VW that has sat for a while
doesn't require a rebuild thankfully as Bob said, just a removal of the flywheel and clutch assy. Basically, like Bob said as well, if it were me I would perform a few of the tests we've mentioned to get a better idea of how much actual life is left in the engine. If the tests come back good, you can probably just buy a bunch of cheap seals and gaskets, get her oil tight again, and throw some fresh dino juice in her and go. _________________ 71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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1971 viv Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020 Posts: 68 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Any ideas for removing seized engine tin screws? |
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Mr.Duncan Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012 Posts: 3542 Location: Houston, TX
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Or vice grips on the screw heads. On some of them you just have to get mid-evil on them. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 1931 Location: Manitowoc, WI
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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From my thread on getting mid-evil, my engine also looked like it spent a few months in the ocean and was very rusty
Ceckert64 wrote: |
I figured out how to get out sheet metal screws that are stripped/seized
First: weld together two heavier duty rods/ bolts, one being about the size of the screws.
Second: weld the t-handle to the screw
Let it cool the start unscrewing it
Then take it out
Cut off the screw and clean up the end and repeat
It worked great, I took out almost all of them that way and only one broke, here is the carnage
] |
_________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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ibldrc Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 156 Location: Savannah, GA
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1971 viv Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020 Posts: 68 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Thanks for all the tips. i might just have to grind them down if these ideas dont work |
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1971 viv Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020 Posts: 68 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Thanks for the help. I got them off. I need to remove the flywheel nut. I’ve seen that you can use an impact wrench to get it off, but do you need a torque multiplier to get it torqued on? I don’t want to buy it if I don’t have to. They seem to be pretty pricey. And I’m assuming that there is no way to get at the seal without taking it off. |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 1931 Location: Manitowoc, WI
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4893 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Quote: |
You don’t need a torque multiplier, if you have a torque wrench that goes up to 100ft/lb of torque you are fine. Just need to hold it so it doesn’t spin, put it in gear, flywheel lock etc |
stock flywheel nut is 235ft/lbs torque setting
Quote: |
Thanks for the help. I got them off. I need to remove the flywheel nut. I’ve seen that you can use an impact wrench to get it off, but do you need a torque multiplier to get it torqued on? I don’t want to buy it if I don’t have to. They seem to be pretty pricey. And I’m assuming that there is no way to get at the seal without taking it off. |
impact wrench is okay if you are tearing the engine apart to rebuild, I would never use it on a good running engine
I hummed and hawed over buying a torque tool for many years, I used a long pipe to torque nuts before, but after I bought the tool, it was much easier and it's been used for many different VW's _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 1931 Location: Manitowoc, WI
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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1971 viv wrote: |
Thanks for the help. I got them off. I need to remove the flywheel nut. I’ve seen that you can use an impact wrench to get it off, but do you need a torque multiplier to get it torqued on? I don’t want to buy it if I don’t have to. They seem to be pretty pricey. And I’m assuming that there is no way to get at the seal without taking it off. |
I bought one years ago, and I'll never know how I got away without it before. It might seem like a lot of money (especially with the extra bits version), but it really pays for itself once you use it a couple of times (for axle nuts, flywheel gland nut, and other high torqued nuts). I also never travel without it, that's how much I like it. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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I had to return a $50 1/2" impact wrench from Home Depot and trade up to the $100 Earthquake 1/2" impact wrench. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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1971 viv Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020 Posts: 68 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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Yeah I suppose I probably should buy one. I do need to do wheel bearings and brakes so I should invest in one. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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1971 viv wrote: |
Yeah I suppose I probably should buy one. I do need to do wheel bearings and brakes so I should invest in one. |
Yup, sometimes the axle nuts can be harder to remove than the gland nut. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Back to top |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Type 3 Squareback |
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I meant to say Harbor Freight yesterday rather than Home Depot! _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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