Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Syncro Front CV bolt question
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
blyhigh
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 77
Location: The Beaver State
blyhigh is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:41 pm    Post subject: Syncro Front CV bolt question Reply with quote

I'm attempting to swap out a front axle on an '89 Syncro. Upon examination of the inner CV joint I found what I thought were going to be 8mm 12 point bolts but they appear to be another size (see photo). A 6mm 12 point bit seems to be too small to fit and an 8mm bit too large. What am I missing? Is the bolt head stripped? Or is this another configuration all together, Allen, Torx, or something else? Any and all thoughts are appreciated.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Matt Wilson
Samba Member


Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 2245
Location: Oregon
Matt Wilson is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

Looks like Allen head to me. Try your SAE set too, just find an Allen key that fits snug. Then measure the bolt, hopefully all the bolts match and someone didn't cross thread something in there.
_________________
1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle
2005 Passat TDI (sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16673
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

You are missing a 7 mm hex bit.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
blyhigh
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 77
Location: The Beaver State
blyhigh is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

Thanks. I found a few other threads mentioning 6mm Allen bolts used for CV joints. Live and learn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AceTaylor
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 90
Location: PERKASIE, PA
AceTaylor is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

Before you do anything, take a pick and clean out the inside of the allen head, then flush out with brake clean. Then tap in your allen head wrench with a hammer to make sure it is fully seated otherwise it will round off and a new set of "sunday school" words will follow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 15081
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

There should be spacers between the cv and the flange. The bolts are longer than conventional cv bolts. I was missing one spacer.
_________________
Adios
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZsZ
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1086
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
ZsZ is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

The bolts used as CV bolts are DIN standard in size but with an allen head, the multispline/XZN/triple-square driven ones are the special automotive ones.
PO (or mechanic) changed the bolts to the DIN ones. (and forgot the toothed washers)
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sodo
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 6668
Location: Western WA
Sodo is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

blyhigh wrote:
A 6mm 12 point bit seems to be too small to fit and an 8mm bit too large.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


6mm 12 point bit? You meant top write "6mm hex bit", right?
(we call the 12-point CV bolt bits 'triple-square' or XZN).
My Syncro had Allen bolts (hex) in the front CVs.

That bolt needed a 6mm allen bit (when new) but looks a lttle 'loose' currently.

Note: a 1/4" allen is 6.35mm.
_________________


'07 EJ25 with '12 longblock, (Peloquin TDB on the shelf), locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system. LiFePO
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 4463
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

ZsZ wrote:
The bolts used as CV bolts are DIN standard in size but with an allen head, the multispline/XZN/triple-square driven ones are the special automotive ones.
PO (or mechanic) changed the bolts to the DIN ones. (and forgot the toothed washers)


The vans came equipped from factory with the allen bolts, then replacement parts came with XZN bolts.
The thing is the front inner cv bolts need to be a bit longer than the rear bc of the cv spacer, but most vendors, at least in the US sell the correct length bolt for this application as an allen bolt, like factory, so it`s often (if not always0 still an allen bolt on the front inner. When I see a XZN bolt there in the US, it`s always too short bc they used the rear cv bolts Evil or Very Mad
The washer type name I think is Schnorr Wink
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
designer
Samba Member


Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 392
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
designer is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

So Iíve got a few of these bolts that are not coming out. They appear to be rounded out and not gripping a 6mm hex. I tried banging in a 1/4Ē and itís not budging. Iíve PB Blasted also.

Canít get vice grips to grab em. Any ideas?
_________________
__________
87 Syncro Westy

"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 13628
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

Try hammering a good 12mm 12 point socket onto the outer rim of the CV bolt.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanis13
Samba Member


Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: ABQ NM
vanis13 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

designer wrote:
...Canít get vice grips to grab em. Any ideas?



I've had luck with teh nose of the vice grips along with the best fitting allen. the combination of those turning forces was the ticket.

If vice grips keep slipping, file/dremmet parallel flat sides.

...have any of the bolts come off?
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45557

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

410 Channelocks if you can get them in there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
designer
Samba Member


Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 392
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
designer is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

All good solutions gentlemen. Will give er a go
_________________
__________
87 Syncro Westy

"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
designer
Samba Member


Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 392
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
designer is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Try hammering a good 12mm 12 point socket onto the outer rim of the CV bolt.


Brilliant. Sacrificed 4 sockets but a good price to pay. Thank you for the insight.
_________________
__________
87 Syncro Westy

"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 13628
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

designer wrote:
dobryan wrote:
Try hammering a good 12mm 12 point socket onto the outer rim of the CV bolt.


Brilliant. Sacrificed 4 sockets but a good price to pay. Thank you for the insight.


Woo hoo. Glad you got it done. Very Happy
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 4463
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

Another good solution I often also use on hatch bolts, is pounding in the XZN tool in the allen head, works like a charm, and the pounding actually shocks the bolt.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZsZ
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1086
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
ZsZ is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
ZsZ wrote:
The bolts used as CV bolts are DIN standard in size but with an allen head, the multispline/XZN/triple-square driven ones are the special automotive ones.
PO (or mechanic) changed the bolts to the DIN ones. (and forgot the toothed washers)


The vans came equipped from factory with the allen bolts, then replacement parts came with XZN bolts.
The thing is the front inner cv bolts need to be a bit longer than the rear bc of the cv spacer, but most vendors, at least in the US sell the correct length bolt for this application as an allen bolt, like factory, so it`s often (if not always0 still an allen bolt on the front inner. When I see a XZN bolt there in the US, it`s always too short bc they used the rear cv bolts Evil or Very Mad
The washer type name I think is Schnorr Wink


Is the front inner CV joint is thicker? Or why VW used standard M8x50 allen bolts instead of the rear M8x48 XZN?
I can see that the front CV is Vanagon Syncro specific while the rears were already used on the bay windows
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
valvecovergasket
Samba Member


Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 889
Location: pnw
valvecovergasket is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Another good solution I often also use on hatch bolts, is pounding in the XZN tool in the allen head, works like a charm, and the pounding actually shocks the bolt.


Ive had good luck doing the same with appropriately sized torx bits, as they fit just into the corners of the allens
_________________
MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

'83 tdi westy - swap thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16673
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: CV bolt question Reply with quote

About 20-30 seconds of propane heat would have saved you all those sockets and time
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB