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blyhigh
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Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 121
Location: The Beaver State of Mind
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 Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:41 pm Post subject: Syncro Front CV bolt question |
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I'm attempting to swap out a front axle on an '89 Syncro. Upon examination of the inner CV joint I found what I thought were going to be 8mm 12 point bolts but they appear to be another size (see photo). A 6mm 12 point bit seems to be too small to fit and an 8mm bit too large. What am I missing? Is the bolt head stripped? Or is this another configuration all together, Allen, Torx, or something else? Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
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Matt Wilson
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Posts: 2408
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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Looks like Allen head to me. Try your SAE set too, just find an Allen key that fits snug. Then measure the bolt, hopefully all the bolts match and someone didn't cross thread something in there.
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Abscate
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Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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You are missing a 7 mm hex bit.
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blyhigh
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Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 121
Location: The Beaver State of Mind
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:37 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| Thanks. I found a few other threads mentioning 6mm Allen bolts used for CV joints. Live and learn. |
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AceTaylor
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Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 139
Location: PERKASIE, PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:46 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| Before you do anything, take a pick and clean out the inside of the allen head, then flush out with brake clean. Then tap in your allen head wrench with a hammer to make sure it is fully seated otherwise it will round off and a new set of "sunday school" words will follow. |
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MarkWard
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Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:26 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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There should be spacers between the cv and the flange. The bolts are longer than conventional cv bolts. I was missing one spacer.
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ZsZ
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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The bolts used as CV bolts are DIN standard in size but with an allen head, the multispline/XZN/triple-square driven ones are the special automotive ones.
PO (or mechanic) changed the bolts to the DIN ones. (and forgot the toothed washers)
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Zoltan
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Sodo
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| blyhigh wrote: |
A 6mm 12 point bit seems to be too small to fit and an 8mm bit too large.
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6mm 12 point bit? You meant top write "6mm hex bit", right?
(we call the 12-point CV bolt bits 'triple-square' or XZN).
My Syncro had Allen bolts (hex) in the front CVs.
That bolt needed a 6mm allen bit (when new) but looks a lttle 'loose' currently.
Note: a 1/4" allen is 6.35mm.
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ALIKA T3
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Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| ZsZ wrote: |
The bolts used as CV bolts are DIN standard in size but with an allen head, the multispline/XZN/triple-square driven ones are the special automotive ones.
PO (or mechanic) changed the bolts to the DIN ones. (and forgot the toothed washers) |
The vans came equipped from factory with the allen bolts, then replacement parts came with XZN bolts.
The thing is the front inner cv bolts need to be a bit longer than the rear bc of the cv spacer, but most vendors, at least in the US sell the correct length bolt for this application as an allen bolt, like factory, so it`s often (if not always0 still an allen bolt on the front inner. When I see a XZN bolt there in the US, it`s always too short bc they used the rear cv bolts 
The washer type name I think is Schnorr 
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designer
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Location: Idaho-but just the tip
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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So I’ve got a few of these bolts that are not coming out. They appear to be rounded out and not gripping a 6mm hex. I tried banging in a 1/4” and it’s not budging. I’ve PB Blasted also.
Can’t get vice grips to grab em. Any ideas?
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dobryan
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vanis13
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| designer wrote: |
| ...Can’t get vice grips to grab em. Any ideas? |
I've had luck with teh nose of the vice grips along with the best fitting allen. the combination of those turning forces was the ticket.
If vice grips keep slipping, file/dremmet parallel flat sides.
...have any of the bolts come off?
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| 410 Channelocks if you can get them in there. |
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designer
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Location: Idaho-but just the tip
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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All good solutions gentlemen. Will give er a go
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87 Syncro Westy : 2.5l
"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013. |
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designer
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Joined: November 05, 2009
Posts: 484
Location: Idaho-but just the tip
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| Try hammering a good 12mm 12 point socket onto the outer rim of the CV bolt. |
Brilliant. Sacrificed 4 sockets but a good price to pay. Thank you for the insight.
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87 Syncro Westy : 2.5l
"It is that annoying, accelerating downhill so I can make it up the next hill in the same gear. Foot to floor hoping I can get out of the way of other cars getting onto the highway." - somebody on here around 2013. |
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dobryan
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ALIKA T3
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ZsZ
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Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:42 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| ZsZ wrote: |
The bolts used as CV bolts are DIN standard in size but with an allen head, the multispline/XZN/triple-square driven ones are the special automotive ones.
PO (or mechanic) changed the bolts to the DIN ones. (and forgot the toothed washers) |
The vans came equipped from factory with the allen bolts, then replacement parts came with XZN bolts.
The thing is the front inner cv bolts need to be a bit longer than the rear bc of the cv spacer, but most vendors, at least in the US sell the correct length bolt for this application as an allen bolt, like factory, so it`s often (if not always0 still an allen bolt on the front inner. When I see a XZN bolt there in the US, it`s always too short bc they used the rear cv bolts
The washer type name I think is Schnorr |
Is the front inner CV joint is thicker? Or why VW used standard M8x50 allen bolts instead of the rear M8x48 XZN?
I can see that the front CV is Vanagon Syncro specific while the rears were already used on the bay windows
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
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valvecovergasket
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:59 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| Another good solution I often also use on hatch bolts, is pounding in the XZN tool in the allen head, works like a charm, and the pounding actually shocks the bolt. |
Ive had good luck doing the same with appropriately sized torx bits, as they fit just into the corners of the allens
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Abscate
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:09 am Post subject: Re: CV bolt question |
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About 20-30 seconds of propane heat would have saved you all those sockets and time
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