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M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

To help all those.

TDI input shaft. Also sometimes available here

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Plate

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DMF complete kit. Not sure if it's the correct pilot that comes with the kit but the one time use bolts work.

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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Thank you for the links old_man.

Well things came apart ok with me only making one boneheaded mistake setting the head down (gently) on my wood workbench forgetting that one intake and one exhaust valve were open.

The slightly polished band on the cam taper for the pulley makes me think it could have been moving. It did take some pretty good hits with a drift to get the sprocket off though.

So does anyone see a reason I shouldn’t just replace in exhaust valves and lifters?


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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Does anyone know how long it typically takes to get parts from brickworks and bulliparts to the USA? I’m trying to wrap things up for a birthday trip for my wife May 11th if possible....
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I don't know about bulli but Brickwerks sends it out the door pretty quick. After that it depends on what you paid for shipping. If it's UPS express or whatever then it should be 4-5 days I imagine. Might be duty/brokerage fees but I not sure how that works in the US.

I imagine Bulli would be similar. I think Waldo has more experience with them.
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RolandD
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Hey Waldo = is there a spec for tip of valve stem to cam bearing surface on there motors? I got some replacement valves once that where no tin spec for my 1.9 IDI.

I also retained my cam but replaced lifters and 4 valves.

Roland
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

daltonhawl, I don't see anything surprising in your pics. 4 valves, 4 lifters, hand lap the new valves, replace those valve stem seals, head gasket, head bolts, cam seal, etc...

Bulliparts usually takes a couple weeks to the US.

RolandD I'm not sure of the spec between cam and valve stem.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

There isn't a spec persay, but you should measure from the valve cover surface of the head down to the valve stem and record that measurement. The lifter has only so much range.

During a valve job, grinding the valve and seat, "drops" the valve further into the head. Its not uncommon to grind the valve stem to get that measurement back to spec. A new valve lapped in shouldn't be an issue as long as the valve is the same length as the one removed. Set the valve in and compare against your original measurement prior to installing the spring.

On our VW race engines, we'd measure the installed height and shim the springs accordingly to get the same seat pressure. That's overkill for your project.

Opposite of a WBX lifter, we'd actually depress the lifter to "empty" it for assembly. This insured that a valve wasn't held open on the original startup.
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RolandD
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Markward is going the right direction. If the manufacturing tolerances on the valve are on the long side,there may be an issue that the lifter can not adjust enough.

Roland
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I've replaced valves in multiple cylinder heads and have never had an issue. The hydraulic lifters have a significant range of adjustment and provided you get valves that are correct for the application it should work fine.
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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I’ve never worked on a head before so I appreciate the input. I’ll make the measurement just to see if there’s a difference.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I ordered the shield from Brickworks. Chris at T3technique is checking when he can get an input shaft.

I saw a Samba post where AndyBees said you can use the DMF with the stock clutch disc and input shaft. That wouldn’t be my first choice but it’s an option. I wonder if there’s a larger diameter disc available that would fit?
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

You can use the WBX 228mm disc with the single-mass flywheel. I do not know if it will work with the DMF.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I can't comment on the DMF and the wbx disc, but I used the complete SMF kit on our TDI with an input shaft from Christopher at T3.

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Other than the splines, the obvious difference with this TDI specific disc was the size of the springs in the disc. They were the size of valve springs compared to the tiny ones the WBX disc has.

I ran a stock diesel clutch for 45,000 miles. I opted for the above clutch setup for experience. Next time the transmission is out, I'll look at a DMF setup.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I made the last two tools I need to finish the job, a counter hold tool with an intermediate shaft pulley end and a cam sprocket end and I bought a 1” deep socket and cut it to make a valve spring compressor that I can use on the drill press. The compressor works very well.

I did make a rookie mistake by turning the upside down after I’d removed the first valve/lifter. This caused the remaining lifters to fall out faster than I could tell which spot they came from so I’ll be replacing all 8.

The replacement timing cover came yesterday. The seller gave me a $10 discount because they noticed that someone had cut a hole in it. That’s nothing compared to the old cover which was cut down by at least half, maybe so they could keep that old metal shroud?

I noticed the water pump pulley isn’t vey round so I should look for another one.

Is the small grove worn on the sealing area of the intermediate shaft a concern? Other than that it doesn’t seem worn and doesn’t have discernible side play.



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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

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Two things. Not sure about the 1.9, but the 1.6 had a "T" bolt that went through the waterpump to secure the timing cover. You can make a bolt by grinding a flat on one side of the hex that will keep it from turning while you tighten the nut on.

Second, is that water pump pulley bent or is it an optical illusion?
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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

MarkWard. I do have the t-bolt, one of the two that were holding the partial cover on.

I think I need new pulley.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Remember to replace the intermediate shaft seal carrier o-ring!

Your intermediate shaft looks decent. To be clear, the most obvious groove on the surface (red arrow point) is not where the seal rides. That groove is machined into each of the shafts and I assume it helps sling oil off the shaft before it reaches the seal. The seal lip grooves are very faint on your shaft and are located at the tips of the two green arrows.

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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Thanks. The red arrow points the groove I was concerned about. I’m glad to hear that it’s intentional. My first batch of parts which should include the o-ring are due for delivery today. It will be nice to be able to put something back together after so much tear down.
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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

I just got a notification that the cover plates will be delivered from Brickwerks tomorrow- impressively fast. However I haven’t heard back from T3 and now the input shaft is showing out of stock at bulliparts as well so it’s starting to seem hard to get my hands on. I should have just ordered one when I could have.

I don’t suppose anyone has a spare shaft they can loan me until I can get one shipped over?
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daltonhawk
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: M-TDI Vanagon Suddenly Blowing Huge Clouds of White smoke Reply with quote

Well I just heard from Chris at T3 that he has an input shaft for me so I might get it put back together next week like I hoped.
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