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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:28 pm Post subject: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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Just looking for ideas and wanted to see what others might have done. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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Run some math on this before spending money _________________ .ssS! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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Abscate wrote: |
Run some math on this before spending money |
Lungs that don't work well are really expensive, between the dust of the Mojave and the fires of the Pacific Northwest I am ready for a filtration system of some ilk. |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 2983 Location: MD
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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Two tiny ones?
What about the vents in the doors? _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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flomulgator Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2013 Posts: 950 Location: Leavenworth, WA
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
Run some math on this before spending money |
Lungs that don't work well are really expensive, between the dust of the Mojave and the fires of the Pacific Northwest I am ready for a filtration system of some ilk. |
As a fellow PNW'er who is currently without his modern, filtered daily driver at an inopportune time, I am also interested in this (but dusty western roads also suck w/o one). In the meantime, I've been putting on my N95-ish mask the moment I leave the front door and not taking it off until I get back home. Lungs are still in decent shape compared to previous unmasked forest fire experiences.
It would be also be nice if I could breath any air outside my own home in any setting within a 500 mile radius safely without a viral/smoke rated filtration device but hey that's the world our van was designed in, not the one we currently live in _________________ She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro! |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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I cannot imagine the leaky vanagon converted into a clean environment by adding filtration to the hvac system. There are so many air leaks on these things that even success with that goal and the huge expense would only filter perhaps 90% of the air coming into these girls. When underway, there are a number of constant air leaks ranging from the door seals, to the overhead vent systems, etc. Then what do you do when stopped and the smoke is seeping through everything slowly?
Far better to wear a proper cartridge type face mask to protect your lungs than to try to protect the entire van interior. Hop out to get gas? 1/4 of the interior air volume just got exchanged unfiltered. Side wind while driving - dirty air coming in.
For sleeping in the van or stopped, I have an interesting suggestion. Costco sells a Winix serious portable air filter that can clean a 360 sq ft room. Our cat has asthma and i have mild asthma so when the smoke map forecasts made it clear we were getting hit, I bought two. Outside it smells like I have a campfire on the lawn, but inside our house it does not at all - indicating these things are working. The index was an awful 360 earlier today but inside we're find and listening to the swish of twin filters. So for $270 vs the vet at 80/night we just broke even and all of us are enjoying the fresh air - not just the cat.
If you can find a way to power this in your van and can dedicate the space - I have no doubt this can keep up with a vanagon interior and keep the airspace VERY clean. Pollen, smoke, dust. I just checked the label and in turbo mode its max draw is 65W. It's blue tooth so you can turn it on from anywhere so the van is clean when you hop in, it has an app so i can literally watch the air quality go up and down and you can set it in auto mode to start when the air gets bad, etc, etc. For $129.99 and a nice inverter you could have this in your van and running in 30 minutes. I did some research on air filters by joining Consumer Reports for this month and this model did well.
This would actually work while driving as well as the vanagon is only a small airspace comparied to a room and each filter can totally dominate a 360 square foot room, which remember has 8 foot ceilings. I"d estimate the Vanagon as being a quarter the size of this filter's rated covered area.
Bonus - made in Thailand (not China) and comes with a 2 year supply of HEPA filters.
Best, Doug _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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IdahoDoug wrote: |
I cannot imagine the leaky vanagon converted into a clean environment by adding filtration to the hvac system. There are so many air leaks on these things that even success with that goal and the huge expense would only filter perhaps 90% of the air coming into these girls. When underway, there are a number of constant air leaks ranging from the door seals, to the overhead vent systems, etc. Then what do you do when stopped and the smoke is seeping through everything slowly?
Far better to wear a proper cartridge type face mask to protect your lungs than to try to protect the entire van interior. Hop out to get gas? 1/4 of the interior air volume just got exchanged unfiltered. Side wind while driving - dirty air coming in.
For sleeping in the van or stopped, I have an interesting suggestion. Costco sells a Winix serious portable air filter that can clean a 360 sq ft room. Our cat has asthma and i have mild asthma so when the smoke map forecasts made it clear we were getting hit, I bought two last Thursday. Outside it smells like I have a campfire on the lawn, but inside our house it does not at all - indicating these things are working. The index was an awful 360 earlier today but inside we're find and listening to the swish of twin filters. So for $270 vs the vet at 80/night we just broke even and all of us are enjoying the fresh air - not just the cat.
If you can find a way to power this in your van and can dedicate the space - I have no doubt this can keep up with a vanagon interior and keep the airspace VERY clean. Pollen, smoke, dust. I just checked the label and in turbo mode its max draw is 65W. It's blue tooth so you can turn it on from anywhere so the van is clean when you hop in, it has an app so i can literally watch the air quality go up and down and you can set it in auto mode to start when the air gets bad, etc, etc. When I turned them on last Thursday, I could literally watch the air quality go from red, to amber, to blue in a single hour (and these are tested and rated independently like better models are. Some filters are absolute junk - criminally ineffective) For $129.99 and a nice inverter you could have this in your van and running in 30 minutes. I did some research on air filters by joining Consumer Reports for this month and this model did well.
This would actually work while driving as well as the vanagon is only a small airspace comparied to a room and each filter can totally dominate a 360 square foot room, which remember has 8 foot ceilings. I"d estimate the Vanagon as being a tenth the size of this filter's rated covered area.
Bonus - made in Thailand (not China) and comes with a 2 year supply of HEPA filters.
Best, Doug |
_________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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IdahoDoug wrote: |
IdahoDoug wrote: |
I cannot imagine the leaky vanagon converted into a clean environment by adding filtration to the hvac system. There are so many air leaks on these things that even success with that goal and the huge expense would only filter perhaps 90% of the air coming into these girls. When underway, there are a number of constant air leaks ranging from the door seals, to the overhead vent systems, etc. Then what do you do when stopped and the smoke is seeping through everything slowly?
Far better to wear a proper cartridge type face mask to protect your lungs than to try to protect the entire van interior. Hop out to get gas? 1/4 of the interior air volume just got exchanged unfiltered. Side wind while driving - dirty air coming in.
For sleeping in the van or stopped, I have an interesting suggestion. Costco sells a Winix serious portable air filter that can clean a 360 sq ft room. Our cat has asthma and i have mild asthma so when the smoke map forecasts made it clear we were getting hit, I bought two last Thursday. Outside it smells like I have a campfire on the lawn, but inside our house it does not at all - indicating these things are working. The index was an awful 360 earlier today but inside we're find and listening to the swish of twin filters. So for $270 vs the vet at 80/night we just broke even and all of us are enjoying the fresh air - not just the cat.
If you can find a way to power this in your van and can dedicate the space - I have no doubt this can keep up with a vanagon interior and keep the airspace VERY clean. Pollen, smoke, dust. I just checked the label and in turbo mode its max draw is 65W. It's blue tooth so you can turn it on from anywhere so the van is clean when you hop in, it has an app so i can literally watch the air quality go up and down and you can set it in auto mode to start when the air gets bad, etc, etc. When I turned them on last Thursday, I could literally watch the air quality go from red, to amber, to blue in a single hour (and these are tested and rated independently like better models are. Some filters are absolute junk - criminally ineffective) For $129.99 and a nice inverter you could have this in your van and running in 30 minutes. I did some research on air filters by joining Consumer Reports for this month and this model did well.
This would actually work while driving as well as the vanagon is only a small airspace comparied to a room and each filter can totally dominate a 360 square foot room, which remember has 8 foot ceilings. I"d estimate the Vanagon as being a tenth the size of this filter's rated covered area.
Bonus - made in Thailand (not China) and comes with a 2 year supply of HEPA filters.
Best, Doug |
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I'll check this out |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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IdahoDoug wrote: |
I cannot imagine the leaky vanagon converted into a clean environment by adding filtration to the hvac system. There are so many air leaks on these things that even success with that goal and the huge expense would only filter perhaps 90% of the air coming into these girls. When underway, there are a number of constant air leaks ranging from the door seals, to the overhead vent systems, etc. Then what do you do when stopped and the smoke is seeping through everything slowly?
Far better to wear a proper cartridge type face mask to protect your lungs than to try to protect the entire van interior. Hop out to get gas? 1/4 of the interior air volume just got exchanged unfiltered. Side wind while driving - dirty air coming in.
For sleeping in the van or stopped, I have an interesting suggestion. Costco sells a Winix serious portable air filter that can clean a 360 sq ft room. Our cat has asthma and i have mild asthma so when the smoke map forecasts made it clear we were getting hit, I bought two. Outside it smells like I have a campfire on the lawn, but inside our house it does not at all - indicating these things are working. The index was an awful 360 earlier today but inside we're find and listening to the swish of twin filters. So for $270 vs the vet at 80/night we just broke even and all of us are enjoying the fresh air - not just the cat.
If you can find a way to power this in your van and can dedicate the space - I have no doubt this can keep up with a vanagon interior and keep the airspace VERY clean. Pollen, smoke, dust. I just checked the label and in turbo mode its max draw is 65W. It's blue tooth so you can turn it on from anywhere so the van is clean when you hop in, it has an app so i can literally watch the air quality go up and down and you can set it in auto mode to start when the air gets bad, etc, etc. For $129.99 and a nice inverter you could have this in your van and running in 30 minutes. I did some research on air filters by joining Consumer Reports for this month and this model did well.
This would actually work while driving as well as the vanagon is only a small airspace comparied to a room and each filter can totally dominate a 360 square foot room, which remember has 8 foot ceilings. I"d estimate the Vanagon as being a quarter the size of this filter's rated covered area.
Bonus - made in Thailand (not China) and comes with a 2 year supply of HEPA filters.
Best, Doug |
Well said Doug, you covered all the thoughts and worries I had about anyone attempting this since even with a modern vehicle, which often have double door seals[ seals on door and on body opening], Pollen filters and are far tighter than our Vanagons, once you stop and open a door, you are at the mercy of whatever could waft inside. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 2983 Location: MD
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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Not even an open door. I replaced the door seal on the slider door, but from the inside I can see light at the back side near the bottom. It's a considerable gap with the door closed! I initially thought this was my poor reconstruction techniques, but I did not touch the area where the seal sits. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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ZsZ Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010 Posts: 1642 Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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I have cut a kitchen hood carbon filter mat to fit under the plastic grill of the fresh air intake. It definitively filters dust out.
BTW there was a filter option from factory made by VOTEX:
https://t3-infos.de/t3-infos_e.html#innenraumfilter
VW partnr is 251 091 400 _________________ Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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ZsZ wrote: |
I have cut a kitchen hood carbon filter mat to fit under the plastic grill of the fresh air intake. It definitively filters dust out.
BTW there was a filter option from factory made by VOTEX:
https://t3-infos.de/t3-infos_e.html#innenraumfilter
VW partnr is 251 091 400 |
WOW, learn something new all the time about these vehicles.... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2558 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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HEPA ain't gonna happen, but reducing the amount of dust when the windows are up is possible.
i have ordered this product and intend to just shove it into the intake from the outside
https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Filter-Washable-Pack-20x30x1/dp/B07V8LHH7Z/ _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1139 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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While far from “HEPA” standards I did this years ago by cutting home AC filter material to the size of the little intake grille behind the main grille. Fastened it temporarily to the little intake grille with binder clips to test the concept. Now, changed it several times in the years since and it definitely catches dirt. The temporary binder clips are still there, but I’ve swapped in new ones after the originals rusted. Chose a synthetic material to hold up to rain intrusion instead of a paper type as this is not a dry location.
Certainly the van is far from “sealed”, but this is the only place where air is “powered in” either by vehicle speed or by the heater blower.
Jim _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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djkeev wrote: |
I did basically this when I made a filter for the A/C intake.
Dave |
It only took me 1 look at Dave's filter to copy that in 3 minutes, and I've been running that since Spring -- MUCH better. Up front has not happened for me yet, but I almost NEVER have the fresh air vent open. That mod can't stop all the air though, so a filter should be something I do there too. I suffered several passes at death as the Mayo Clinic 'fixed me up' from a serious carcinoma, resulting in loss of one lung.
I have the A/C fan blowing to some degree all the time, weather or not the Compressor is engaged.
Problem up front is going to be Moisture. If the filter gets wet, it will either break, or be essentially clogged until it dries out a bit.
-bobby _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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SSWesty Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2008 Posts: 732 Location: Bellevue
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Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
I replaced the door seal on the slider door, but from the inside I can see light at the back side near the bottom. |
I have the same thing going on with my van, it bugs me but not enough to correct or investigate. Something must be out of alignment because I can also see daylight at the bottom back corner of my slider too.
I did think about taking material from a furnace filter and just taping it over the intake cowl. But as noted plenty of other ways to fill the interior with smoke particles. |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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This brings up the "how to thicken up old flattened door seals" debate VS. new seals... I've seen a few ways to fix 'fattened' seals on youtube. The full job of new seals as viewed from other threads and remarks here seems like quite a task and easy to mess up. (AND not inexpensive)
Maybe liquid urethane squirted into the hollow seals, and a stick on strip on the non-hollow places? _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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sanchius Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007 Posts: 1446 Location: IN
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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bobbyblack wrote: |
This brings up the "how to thicken up old flattened door seals" debate VS. new seals... |
On my Audi cab I ran a well-lubed length of clear small-diameter flexible plastic tubing up the inside of the hollow part of the door/window seal to plump it back out. It worked well. _________________ The Syncro years (2005-16) - The 2WD years (2017-23) - Westy & WBX rebuild spreadsheet - Sanchius & Tuna: The Video
Your gold star membership keeps this awesome list going! |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Anyone successfully installed a HEPA filter on the cowl intake? |
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sanchius wrote: |
I ran a well-lubed length of clear small-diameter plastic tubing up the inside of the hollow part of the door/window seal to plump it back out. It worked well. |
Like fish tank air line? Or a little bigger? And what about the non-hollow sections?
Thanks
-bobby _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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