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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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I was able to remove the last tin and pulled the other head. All cylinders are now removed. All four pistons move freely, crank is not moving.
I guess my only option is to split the case?
_________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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Sure sounds that way, from the looks of the rest of things it's likely time anyways. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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I think I have everything unbolted, any secrets to get the case apart?
_________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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There's 26 or 27 bolts/nuts/fasteners holding it together, how many can you count on yours? You may want to get that flywheel off first as well, it's alot easier when the crank is secured and there's a nut hiding behind it that has to come off too.
_________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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Quote: |
and there's a nut hiding behind it that has to come off too. |
Get the Wilson book and read through before proceeding. It’s a shame to Ruin good stuff nowadays. _________________ .ssS! |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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Flywheel off, another 13mm under there
I haven’t had success getting the oil pump cover off. _________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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camino70 wrote: |
I haven’t had success getting the oil pump cover off. |
It's not a cover on a type 4, it's the whole pump. With all the case fasteners off and a split starting it should pull out, careful prying on the ears, they break off quite easily. Even pressure on both sides so it comes straight out and doesn't get sideways and jam, worst case scenario double nut the studs and remove them (just 2 on same side is OK), then split the case and catch the pump as it falls out. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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I got a few minutes this evening, some slow prying and I was able to pull the oil pump.
I think I have all the bolts off, including this one
I’ll try pulling it apart again tomorrow.
I am still entertaining purchasing a beat 74 914, am I just postponing the inevitable rebuild? _________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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Working slowly
_________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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I’m having a hard time reaching the pins on the two on the bottom of their stroke. How else can I get to them with the crank not spinning?
_________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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So one (or more) of those rods is stuck to the crank and won't turn? I'm guessing that's why the pistons are still on 1 & 3? Looks like they were far enough out to remove the pins to me.
A 12 point socket on a 3/8" breaker bar should get the nuts broken loose, maybe a short extension as well to get out from between the counterweights. It may be a game of turning the nut 1:12 a turn and taking the socket off the bar and rotating it 1/4 turn, then another 1:12 turn and so on, sometimes it's the only answer in tight spaces.
There's another thread here from last week doing a very similar job, he ended up boring a hole in the piston to get in there with a long extension. It's a shame to destroy possibly reuseable German parts, but sometimes it's the only option. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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1&3 are accessible, though I’ve not been successful removing the clip yet.
2&4 are not accessible, they’re far enough in the block/cylinder that they look removed in the picture.
2&4 rods/caps look dry compared to 1&3.
I’m good at destroying things, I’m not ready to do it purposefully yet. _________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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Stop before you beat up good parts and go out and buy these:
https://channellock.com/product/927/
They are good and sturdy and made in the USA.
Cheapo pliers make getting the piston pin retainers off agony. They are definitely worth the money. |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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orwell84 wrote: |
Stop before you beat up good parts and go out and buy these:
https://channellock.com/product/927/
They are good and sturdy and made in the USA.
Cheapo pliers make getting the piston pin retainers off agony. They are definitely worth the money. |
I have these. Not sure if it’s my limited angle without crank movement impeding me (more than normal). _________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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camino70 wrote: |
orwell84 wrote: |
Stop before you beat up good parts and go out and buy these:
https://channellock.com/product/927/
They are good and sturdy and made in the USA.
Cheapo pliers make getting the piston pin retainers off agony. They are definitely worth the money. |
I have these. Not sure if it’s my limited angle without crank movement impeding me (more than normal). |
Gotcha. You said pistons were moving freely, but I reread your post and saw:
Crank was NOT.
Could you hook the the end of the retaining ring with a dental pick thingy and just pull them out ugly? That’s what I ended up doing...when I still had crappy snap ring pliers. If you pull on it so the snap ring kind of bends in n itself you shouldn’t damage the piston.
Somebody else just did this...split case with crank not turning...on a T4. |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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orwell84 wrote: |
camino70 wrote: |
orwell84 wrote: |
Stop before you beat up good parts and go out and buy these:
https://channellock.com/product/927/
They are good and sturdy and made in the USA.
Cheapo pliers make getting the piston pin retainers off agony. They are definitely worth the money. |
I have these. Not sure if it’s my limited angle without crank movement impeding me (more than normal). |
Gotcha. You said pistons were moving freely, but I reread your post and saw:
Crank was NOT.
Could you hook the the end of the retaining ring with a dental pick thingy and just pull them out ugly? That’s what I ended up doing...when I still had crappy snap ring pliers. If you pull on it so the snap ring kind of bends in n itself you shouldn’t damage the piston.
Somebody else just did this...split case with crank not turning...on a T4. |
I’ll keep trying with the channel locks, I seem to make more progress when I step away and return a day or two later.
I half don’t want to find the other thread to see what I may be in store for. _________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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I think he drilled holes in the pistons to get to the rod nuts, but his pistons were toast. The rod was stuck on melted bearing material.
I have never actually dealt with this problem but I agree with you about walking away for awhile. I find that if I keep at it after I am past my frustration point I resort to desperate brute force and ignorance, forget things and bad things happen. If I walk away for awhile, it all looks different when I come back to it and a solution comes to me.
I get especially jittery when putting together a case on a rebuild. You kind of have to see the whole thing through. There is always a point where things go south; a part gets misplaced, a case half hangs up and you get stuck while the case sealant catches flies. I try to get everything ready before hand and just take my time.
You’ll get it. Hang in there. |
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camino70 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2020 Posts: 156 Location: Canton, Georgia
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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2&4 rods are remarkably drier than 1&3.
I could get to the rod nuts on the top side, I sprayed them liberally with penetrating oil yesterday. I got them off today.
Flipped it over, removed the oil tray:
It looks like I may be able to get to the rod nuts from the bottom side. I sprayed them with penetrating oil today and going to let it set overnight.
_________________ Ron
1974 Westfalia
Goal: get the 914 1.7 running |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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Wooooo..., it's one of them fancy Porch motors, "I hear they bolt right in!"
Odd that it has a windage tray and dished pistons, a bit of everything going on there.
Good job on the nuts, keep at it. That cam doesn't look half bad, I hope you kept track of which holes the lifters came out of. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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cmonSTART Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014 Posts: 1915 Location: NH
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Intro - 1974 Westfalia |
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That sure is really weird - wonder why it has the windage tray.
Interesting. _________________ '78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS |
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