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2.1 MV rebuild
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MarkWard
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Location: Retired South Florida
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

It likely needs a ground added. If the hose is steel braid, it likely will ground to the case. If you attach your testlight to the bat terminal of the battery, probe the adapter, the light will light if the adapter is grounded. The 2.1 has 2 oil pressure switches, are both relocated or only one of them. The switches look identical except for color and they work opposite of each other. The switch you are checking should be closed with the engine off. The other switch closes when the pressure builds. So you just need to pay attention.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Wont start...yet.

Here is my set up but would love some advice. (This chassis only has 130k on it)

Fuel delivery:
Old gas...been sitting since august (probably the main issue).
New fuel lines
Rebuilt injectors (I labeled the injector wires from the ECU and replaced correctly).
O2 sensor disconnected (only has 500 miles on the sensor)

1.35 ratio rockers adjusted as far out as possible

Spark:
New coil
Distributor is 180 out so I installed plug wires accordingly (should run...right? I will eventually reinstall this correctly)
New cap and rotor
New plug wires
New ngk plus .7mm gap

Oil:
Pressure confirmed with a test light set up as per Mark Ward advice.
Straight 40w
Oil breather tower outlet is re-routed to discharge on the ground
Oil breather inlet on the intake boot is plugged with a cork and hose clamp


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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

At the point you're at, I'd be trying to forget the months of engine work done and be treating this as a no start condition.

Verify fuel, spark. Put good gas in. Check every electrical connection again. Still won't start check compression then start the digifant pro test steps remaining.

I'd also hook the breather stuff up in stock layout.
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

90weekender wrote:
Distributor is 180 out so I installed plug wires accordingly (should run...right? I will eventually reinstall this correctly


How is this possible? The distributor is keyed. It can only install 1 way. I would rearrange your wires to be correct. Make sure the line/mark on the distributor body lines up to the rotor position at cylinder #1 TDC and try again.

That said, looking at your engine bay (super pretty btw) the spark plug wires look routed correctly to me.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Dizzy.

Here’s where i get confused. Bentley has 2 images and instructions showing how to install the distributor. My engine is a 2.1 and does not have a vaccumm advance, and when I put my engine at TDC on cylinder 1, my rotor is facing more towards the front and drivers side of the van. Also the “O.T.” Mark on the crank pulley is a surprise. I thought TDC was found with the mark closest to the engine.

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Last edited by 90weekender on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 am; edited 3 times in total
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

This is for 2.1s. Do you have a new distributor? It's there, it's a very faint line scribed into the body. The plastic cover below the rotor also is keyed and has a mark (little triangle?) as well. You definitely need the cover off to see both marks. Might need to take the distributor out, look at it closely, put a dot/mark with a sharpie on the scribed line, and reinstall.

The picture/diagram is still accurate. Rotor should point roughly at the timing mark for 0 degrees advanced. And then once it's warmed up, time it appropriately.

Edit: Your distributor looks different. It has some cup thing covering it. No idea what that's about. But I can't imagine it does not also have the lines. Unclip the cover and give it a closer look. It's very faint.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

4Gears4Tires

Thanks for the details...I'll try that. One question I still have is which timing mark to use on the crank pulley to get TDC. The pictures above use 2 different marks and i dont get it.

Markward
I have not forgotten your suggestion wrt testing for oil pressure. The test light goes out about 2 seconds after I start cranking the engine. To me this means the switch(blue one relocated from the side of the engine) is working and I have pressure.
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

90weekender wrote:
4Gears4Tires

Thanks for the details...I'll try that. One question I still have is which timing mark to use on the crank pulley to get TDC. The pictures above use 2 different marks and i dont get it.


The U notch is TDC. The V notch is 5 degrees BTDC. Use the U notch, labeled O.T. in the first image you posted.

And it's honestly best to verify with a spark plug out. Put a screwdriver or whatever down the spark plug hole and rotate the crank back and forth. That way you can manually verify TDC.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

It Runs!


Link


Many many thanks to all who helped me get this far...wow! If you listen closely you can hear my wife crying just after its starts up.

Timing is set by hand. I wanted everything to be hooked up to improve my chances of success
O2 sensor connected
Oil breather connected

I’ve run it for a minute at a time to bake the exhaust paint in cycles. After the 5 cycle, I let it run for 2 minutes until the thermostat opened up. It’s putting out some blue smoke...not too much. I’m hoping that’s normal until the rings are broken in.

No water leaks, so I’ll drain the water and refill with antifreeze mix tomorow. Then I’ll take it out to break in the rings. IIRC the procedure involves running it up and down in 2 and 3rd gear and slowly add load...both throttle and engine breaking loads. I think Mark said an hour max is sufficient. Then change oil...woo hoo!
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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

CONGRATULATIONS!

I haven't teared up, but I have whooped for joy in similar circumstances.

Me personally, I'd do the cam break-in stuff, but that's just like my opinion man.
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2020 GTI SE manual
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Congrats!
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vino de vano
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

!TS ALIVE! congrats
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Igeo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Glad you got it running...but is it just me, or do I hear somebody knocking at the door?
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

knocking hydro lifters? They can scare you till they pump up..it might be a while till they quite down.
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Igeo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

I heard the lifters. Hope that's all it is.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

It's noisy...toooo noisy.

mikemtnbike
Yer very sensitive. I will consider the cam break in just for good measure.
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Those lifters will take a while to go silent. Best to set the timing and drive for 20-30 miles..yes it takes a few miles to pump up lifters. 2000 rpm+ and cruise up the road.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

My 19 year old son helped me rebuild this engine, but was out of town for the first start up posted above. So when he returned from his camping trip yesterday, we pretended the engine had not been started and did a second “1st start up” with him.


Link


His is clearly amazed that the engine is running. Evidence of the skepticism he’s grown from working on this thing with me. When he was 6, we did a lot of fishing trips up and down California with this van. After 5 or so trips without catching a single fish, he asked me “Dad...is fishing real?”

After he saw the engine running yesterday for the first time in 9 months he said, “Dad...engines ARE real!”


Last edited by 90weekender on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:16 am; edited 3 times in total
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Why is it age restricted? Good impression of a first start up though! Laughing
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Revisiting timing

Bentley:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So here is what I’m getting:

When I line up the flywheel tick mark for TDC on number 1 Cylinder, the rotor is not even close to aiming in the same direction as above.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And when I align the rotor with the mark on the distributor, the flywheel tick marks are rotated off the to the left...you can just see them.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Frustrated...Somewhere on the samba I read that 35 degrees BTDC is 44mm as measured from the V mark on the Crank pulley. My engine is running because I followed that guidance, then rotated my distributor until the rotor was at the #1 spark plug terminal on the distributor cap. And tada...it had to work...and it did. But the Bentley guide makes less sense to me.
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