2.1 MV rebuild

[4Gears4Tires]

If it's at or close to 35 degrees, it's not going to line up. It only lines up at 0 degrees and then you need to time it to 35 degrees. Since it runs, I would verify timing with a timing light and you should be good to go.
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[mikemtnbike]

Just in case you somehow have not seen it...
https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=162

That video explains setting timing to advance pretty darn well.

A fabric ruler works great for measuring to the new mark you will make.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[4Gears4Tires]

All the guides.. whatever. I ran around chasing my tail and doubting myself so much. The best option imo is an advanced adjustable timing light. Use the TDC mark and don't screw around with measuring other marks or whatever. Just set the timing for 35, rev to 3000rpm, and you're golden.

https://smile.amazon.com/INNOVA-5568-Pro-Timing-Li...mp;sr=8-11
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[90weekender]

Thanks Guys,

I'll take a look at the GW article and a timing light. Although I may just take it to my mechanic to have him do the final tune...including valve adjustments.

WRT valve adjustment. Should I bother doing this before I do the ring break in drive?

Seems the lifers are still clacking a bit...so adjustments seem ineffective until they are pumped up with oil.

??

[90weekender]

So....you guys were right. It’’s making too much noise.

Ran it for 20 minutes in the garage (stopped smoking at 7 minutes but never stopped clacking)
Drove it for 40 minutes to break in the rings.
Set the dynamic timing with a timing light.

Still clacking and newly leaking from the no 4 exhaust push rod tube. After initial investigation, the tube is ovalized in the vertical dimension and not seated straight. I suspect a bent push rod....we’ll see what a deeper inspection reveals tomorrow.

Notice how narrowed the no 4 exhaust tube (on the right) is?

[4Gears4Tires]

Is that a dent in the pushrod tube on the left?
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[felixbobcat]

One of my tubes leaked as well and it was the exhaust tube on number four too! My fault on putting the head on because it got hung up and got bent and I didn't know there was a problem until I started it up. I replaced all my tubes with these.

You can replace the tubes without taking the heads off but you will destroy the old ones removing them. You do have to remove the rocker assembly to pull the push rods.

[mikemtnbike]

It is, IME, exponentially easier to get the push rods seated correctly when the engine is vertical in an engine stand. Using gravity as your friend always helps.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[90weekender]

[Howesight]

Yes, it is possible to install pushrods while the engine is in the van. It just requires a delicate feel. You back off the lash adjustment as far as possible, hold the pushrod with finger and thumb, and move the lifter end of the pushrod up, down, left and right as you screw in the lash adjuster, feeling for the pushrod tip seating in the lifter.

Most important for future builds on this whole pushrod issue is bench bleeding the lifters. Even then, if there is much time elapsing between bleeding and it is possible for lifters to bleed down and suck air.

Regarding consequences, if the pushrod is not seated in the socket in the lifter, then when the engine runs, the pushrod often works its way loose and then falls out of the socket on the rocker end and the pushrod can get bent and push against a rocker and dislodge the rocker. A loose pushrod can also damage the lifter by bearing against the wall of the lifter rather than the socket.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[T3 Pilot]

Also remember that the pushrod carries oil through its length from the lifter to the rocker arm and that depends on it being seated in the lifter socket.
_________________
1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......

[90weekender]

Howesite,

"You back off the lash adjustment as far as possible, hold the pushrod with finger and thumb, and move the lifter end of the pushrod up, down, left and right as you screw in the lash adjuster, feeling for the pushrod tip seating in the lifter. "

That's exactly how I installed my pushrods and adjusted the screws. But to be more sure, I started with the rockers off, so could gauge how deep the push rods fall into the tubes when correctly seated to a lifter.

So...once I assess the situation, I'll decide how to reinstall.

[DanHoug]

a bit late now except for the side you'll be taking the rocker arm off... a good thread on lifter bleeding.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

you're doing a great job at taking things in stride, or at least not typing them out. this stuff happens, a combination of failures of both material and process. edumacation degree advanced with both.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[90weekender]

Thanks Dan...it's a journey I'll opine about later...at length.

But I cut my teeth designing and building formula race cars, fine art and design. When you are trying to do something you don't know how to do...the ratio of build-test-learn(failure) time to drive/success time is like 500:1 and it's often lonely work....westies are a similar challenge to me. And with you guys on my side it's a little less lonely.

[4Gears4Tires]

[90weekender]

Drained the break-in oil and removed the drivers side rockers and push rods.

#4 intake and exhaust push rods are bent.
#4 adjuster screws look fine. I expected them to be worse.

Replacing all parts with new is easy....but the real issue is...WHY did this happen?

Lead hypothesis: I let the engine down on my wooden dolley and the drivers side rocker tubes took the weight of the engine for some time. A mistake on my part and wisely noted by Dr. Mark Ward when he commented on the photos. I ignored his subtle but astute warning.

Secondary hypothesis: ?? Anyone ??

Exhibits:

Just noticed these adjuster screws are different

Notice the wear location is lower on the left (exhaust) rocker.

The left (exhaust) adjuster screw may be bent. I’ll check it this weekend.

[90weekender]

Adjustable push rod tube options: Major concern is leaking...so I'm leaning toward the GW OE tubes. Can anyone vouch for the other options being "Leak Proof"?

GW: OE manufacturer...never leaks...requires pulling the head.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/mechanical/19295/push-rod-tube-?v=

JayCee: Look strong and "leak proof"....good price
https://www.ssaircooled.com/jaycee-enterprises-vw-pushrod-tubes-leak-proof-silver-jc-9104-0

CIP1: Look stock-er, but pricey $30 each
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-025-109-337

[90weekender]

[DanHoug]

i'm bothered by why they got bent... sure, they had crazy clearance, hammered around but what did they wedge against to bend? were the rods slipped out of place when you took the valve covers off?

could the cam timing have been off and the valves smacked the pistons? but you turned the engine over by hand many times once it was assembled in the stand, correct?

think you'll be pulling heads or just switching to spring push tubes for them? if you DON'T pull heads (and i probably wouldn't) might want to run a leak down test while the rocker ams are off to check for bent valves. remember to smack the top of each valve with a rubber mallet before testing. kinda fun to do it with the air pressure on too!
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[felixbobcat]

Maybe the push rods weren’t properly seated in the lifters? Not likely but a hypothesis. Are all the bent ones on the same side of the engine?