2.1 MV rebuild

[90weekender]

Felix,

Thanks for the tips. What about the plug looke lean?

It smells really rich...not lean. And the plugs are wet and stinky with gas when I pulled them....so I'm thinking that's running rich...but what do I know.

I did the same break in procedure. It's fairly well established as a best practice...but good to get the confirmatory from Rocky...he's got these engines down.

R

[felixbobcat]

Hhmmm. That is interesting. I set my timing at 5 Degrees BTDC. My engine is running lean and I have yet to find a way to get it to run richer outside of changing the degree on the potentiometer in the MAF.

[DanHoug]

were this mine, i'd take O2 sensor voltage readings both with the green signal wire hooked up and with it disconnected. without having a gas analyzer, this is the closest you're going to get to seeing what is going on with the mixture.

but remember, O2 sensors are the trickster when it comes to ECU mixture control. an O2 sensor with low reading indicating lean can be caused by a cylinder not firing, an exhaust leak, clogged injector, etc. but it tells the ECU to RICHEN things up even tho it is not really lean.

so. take readings. but then ground the green O2 sensor lead simulating lean and listen to the engine and take O2 sensor voltages (it's disconnected now) to see if the ECU is richening things up. the take the green lead and touch it with your finger on one hand and grab the alternator stud with your other. mebbe wet your finger tips. this puts a positive voltage to the ECU O2 sensor input telling the ECU things are rich and need to be leaned back. engine should sound different. unhooked O2 sensor voltage should respond and go low.

it's not a gas analyzer but it is dang useful. and this is all assuming your O2 sensor is happy and alive.

one more mixture trick... with the O2 sensor disconnected from the ECU, at idle, move the AFM wiper vane around. you'll trick the ECU into thinking it needs more or less fuel to respond to the increase/decrease in air flow. again, read the O2 sensor voltage with it disconnected to see what is happening.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[90weekender]

Felix,

One reason I did not go for a high volume rebuild like 2.4Liters was the potential to run too lean. I believe(perhaps mistakenly) stock Digifant will need to be re calibrated for the increased airflow and fuel flow required by the 2.4 engines. Messing with the MAF wiper spring tension and settings looks like more voodoo to me.

I don't want to sound disrespectful, but look at the potential issues I'm dealing with in this stock 30 year old engine.

[90weekender]

Dan,

You are a trooper to keep hanging in there with me. This latest issue with Digifant may have scared off the crowd that was looking forward to a glorious victory at start up. I know I was...and I've been tested with this electrical system.

Soooooo...yesterday I rechecked some obvious stuff like ignition timing and took it for a test ride down the street. It was running really good and engine temp was about half way to the red light(which is positioned about mid-way through the temp gauge). I turned left to turn around in 2nd gear and the engine just stopped. Like someone turned the ignition off.

Pulled over and did a visual inspection. Everything was plugged in and clean...no leaks. But....when I tried to restart it would not start....and smelled of sulfur...and there is a buzzing sound in the engine compartment after a few seconds of cranking.

I'm thinking the buzzing is the idle control thingy...and the sulfur smell is the catalytic converter.

Is my Cat clogged...flooded..? I'm lost.

[DanHoug]

first, consider a no-start condition a gift! way easier to troubleshoot than an intermittent.

go back to the basics...
- test for spark by plugging in an extra spark plug of ANY value and lay it against the engine block.

- test for fuel spray by lifting an injector pair and watching for the spray. put a rag under each injector while an assistant cranks or use a starter cord switch.

if you have spark and fuel, then pull the plugs to see if they are flooded/totally wet.

you're soooo close! we'll stick with you.
the idle stabilizer is supposed to buzz. sulfur smell is because dark forces are nearby playing with you. you'll beat this.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[90weekender]

Dan,

I checked for the basics as you mentioned, and found my coil wire at the coil was loose. I asked my son to install this yesterday evening and he must have not secured it fully.

Once that was in...I had no spark at the spark plug end of the plug wires. So i pulled the distributor cap off and found my distributor rotor could be rotated by hand infinitely! How this is possible...I d not know.

Inspecting the distributor, I found it was pulling out of the engine about 2-3mm. Not much, but with all the timing adjustments I've been doing, it must have worked it's way out of the block a bit...and I did not notice.

So, I've tightened the distributor down again...rotor is NOT freely rotatable anymore...and fixed to the distributor shaft.

It started on the first crank. Reset the dynamic timing (5 degrees BTDC at idle and 35 degrees at 3000rpm) with my strobe light. It's driving better than it did when we bought it!

It idles at 750, low end torque is back and it pulls smoothly and easily up the rev range. I'm keeping it under 4000 rpm until I get a few hundred miles on it. I'm frankly amazed it's running so well with the cracked wiring insulation as pictured above. I am replacing all those for good measure.

Thanks for being there Dan(and all the regulars who've helped me). Pictures and video later...

R

[DanHoug]

Sweet and congrats on the troubleshooting. You’re ready with skills for the road. Now try your timing at 40 degrees when full on and feel that baby open up!
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[90weekender]

Update:

Good news it passed California SMOG this morning! Numbers look good to me...see image below.

...100 miles on the engine since the rebuild. Running straight 40 weight oil with 1 quart of High Zinc break in oil.

...driving it on B-roads only. It runs great with the oil breather disconnected and the O2 sensor disconnected. When I reconnect them correctly it's less peppy when cold and even when fully warmed up it's not as crisp. Could be wiring related...so I'll check back in after I replace the wires pictured above.

[jberger]

[Red Ryder]

Yep, those emissions look good! Nice job finding the distributor fault.
_________________
“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland

“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition
Tornado Red

[90weekender]

Jberger,

I’d love to hit the highway dude….but I’ve heard conflicting reports on break in theory.

Others say…don’t go on the highway until you’ve got like 500-1000 miles on it.

With all due respect to you Guru’s…I’m confused. Do we have a “break-in PhD.” On the Samba who can settle this?

BTW - Sanchius’s is a pretty clever fella…and look what happened to his build. One missed measurement and he’s starting over. I’m erring on the side of caution until I hear otherwise.

[jberger]

[DanHoug]

break in science hasn't changed for flat tappet engines... my father ruined his first rebuild install at his first garage gig by idling the engine for the first 1/2 hr. took the cam out.

so, as previously mentioned on the cam break in, once done have periods of varying throttle. firm throttle puts high combustion pressures forth to bed the rings against the hone finish of the cylinder walls. just as important, periods of off-throttle coasting creating high vacuum in the cylinder that suck oil up past the rings for lubrication.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[do.dah]

When I installed my RJE 2.3, Rocky had a break-in formula for me to follow, which consisted of using a break-in oil(high zinc formula), leave oil filter off, and spark plug out and crank engine until oil comes out of oil filter location. then, fill filter with oil, install and crank for another 30 seconds. Then install plugs. Once engine starts, DO NOT LET ENGINE IDLE (Rocky's emphasis), bring it to 2k- 2500 rpm for 5 minutes. During this time, set timing. Do 3 more 5 minute sessions, letting engine cool between each session. After that break-in, change out oil and filter for what you like (he recommends 20/50 hot months, 10/40 cold months), Then, to set rings, find a long, level straight stretch of road. In 3rd or 4th gear, run up to 4k rpm, let off gas until you're at 3k rpm, then back up to 4k. Do that 6-8 times. After that, don't go over 4k rpm or lug engine for 500 miles. After that, change oil and filter again, and continue as you normally would.

[90weekender]

Hey Do.Dah

Nice to meet you…and thanks for adding that intel wrt initial start up. I used a very similar method. Except I validated oil pressure by checking the oil pressure switch status while cranking the engine.

I will break the 500 mile mark this weekend and change to regular oil without zinc additives. Looking forward to getting out and camping in the sierras soon.

R

[90weekender]

Wiring fixes

As pictured above, a few wires in the engine room have cracked insulation, so I’ve ordered emplacement parts.

These are from van cafe and vanagain:

[90weekender]

Does this new connector look like it’s wired backwards?

[DanHoug]

truth the wires with an ohm meter on both sets and just wire it by position and not color.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[90weekender]

Hey Dan…that would work if I wanted to use an ohm meter. Which I will someday master.

In the mean time, it took 5 minutes to bend a paper clip and switch the wire positions to stock spec.