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Single Port 1600 just for fun
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jberger
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:46 am    Post subject: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Hi Team!

After playing in WBX and Type 4 world for the last 20 years.. I'm looking to freshen up my 65 sedan for the hell of it. I picked this car up 10 years ago to replace another 65 that went to different home. That car had a stock Ghia 1600DP and I never really liked it. The current 65 came with a burnt valve.. I put a Mahle 85.5 top end on it with nothing but a bit of a flycut on the heads. Ran like a top for 10 years! Really peppy and dependable, even though it always had a growl from the centerline of the crank at Idle.

Flash forward... it now sits more than gets driven... the last time I moved it from the driveway the oil cooler seal blew. I'd be damned if I didn't fix the CC growl at this point. Upon tear down I found the Cofap "stock" replacement cam to have .010" backlash and .010" axial play. That would be the growl. Also calc'd a static compression of 8.18 and a pretty loose deck at .035" + a .025" step at the head.. Shocked

I've toyed with multiple scenarios... Type 4... oxy or WBX swap... but ultimately would be happy just putting back the way it was Sans growl. I like that it's 6 volt.. stock carb, choke, transaxle, heater boxes... You turn the key and it goes. Living in the SF Bay area on the coast.. I need defrost and Heat.. year round. I think I've settled on keeping stock intake and carb, heater boxes with 1 3/8" merged header (AA or CB), Head work (back cut valves, port massaging) bumping up compression while tightening the deck.. and changing the Cam.

Now.. the Cam, I've read many threads about the 2280 and indeed I have run one in a high comp 2178 WBX and quite loved it. My only hesitation is I've degree'd that cam and it's intake closes at 35° @.050" @ the valve with 1.25 ratio rockers.

This combo will be .035" deck, remove step in heads yielding 8.69 static and 7.6 dynamic (if I use the seat closing degree of 50° instead of the @.050")

From my own experience in my 1600sp single cab.. it ran really well with a rotted out exhaust and "open" air cleaner. New tight stock exhaust and the proper oil bath air cleaner and you can't even hear it idle but is notably slower.

Am I silly to think that I can have the best of both worlds? A bit more power while retaining OG characteristics? Keeping in mind that the whole family really enjoyed it how it was..but are excited to see what he'll be!

Cheers,
J
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

I would go ratio rockers with a stock cam over a cheater cam. A header would also help if your willing to live with that.

Dan
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

I wouldīnt. The 2280 works well in such a combo, especially with some healthy CR.
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Lingwendil
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

I ran a 2280 in a 1600 single port with .042-.044" deck, heads flycut to 52cc, and it was a lovely engine! Ran with a cheap header with glasspack muffler, a H30/31 and oil bath aircleaner on my stock geared 61 Baja. Great high 30's fuel economy on the freeway (65mph) and plenty of torque for silicon valley commuter traffic, as well as off-road. I think the same setup with more carb (cb high flow manifold, single port end castings, maybe a 34pict with a mm or so larger vent) would be a fantastic way to go.
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jberger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Little update for the heck of it...

Finally got around to finishing this off and driving!

May have to go the 12V route.. as the 6V system does not like turning this lump over.

Ended up with 8.9:1 compression, cheater cam, simple ported heads, un-shrouded valves, back cut, large single port intake castings matched to the heads, 30 pict carb, oil bath air cleaner, CB streetster hideaway exhaust.

Super impressed with this setup.. Butt dyno approved! Feels significantly quicker than it was.. and it was pretty zippy. Stock jetting is almost perfect.. checked with my AFR gauge.. Eastwood internal and external exhaust coatings really do keep things cool. Oil pressure is great with 5-30 mobil 1. I drilled the heat risers on the CB exhaust then added a Venturi insert on the #4 side to draw from #2 to #4 which seems to work well.

May change to a 34 pict carb if I go 12V.. would most likely add quite a bit more flow! Kinda like suffering with 6V... but LED headlights would be awesome.

Thanks for playing..

J
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jberger
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Added some gauges using the FastFab radio delete panel.. Must say that I was skeptical about the piece vs cost.. It is fanasstic! Tach, Head Temp and Oil pressure. Used a 10amp 6v to 12v step inverter to supply power to the gauges, blue tooth amp and Usb charging port... which equaled .1 amp penalty for the 6 to 12v step. Also installed 6V LED H4 headlight bulbs... went from 16.9 amp draw to 3.9 with 4 times the light output...

I'm a bit leery of the head temp readings.. Being used to type IV busses you live at 300 and regularly see 450... This little thing idles at 190-200 and only kisses 300 after a mile long 3rd gear foot-to-the-floor 14% grade. Is this right?

For fun, I downloaded a GPS 0-60 ap.. Could certainly have launched harder and removed the luggage rack but netted a 12 second time. This feels more fun than it should..

J
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Most of the head temp gauges are kinda iffy. Depending where they are taking the reading, if they are compensated or non-compensated, etc.

Your temps do sound cold, but with coatings, free flowing heads, good cooling setup, you can be on the cold side. Actually I think a tight deck actually helps these engines run cooler.

I would just use the temp as a normal, not normal kinda thing. You know where the gauge hangs out. So if you see it spike 50 degrees, it is indicating something changed.
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jberger
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
Most of the head temp gauges are kinda iffy. Depending where they are taking the reading, if they are compensated or non-compensated, etc.

Your temps do sound cold, but with coatings, free flowing heads, good cooling setup, you can be on the cold side. Actually I think a tight deck actually helps these engines run cooler.

I would just use the temp as a normal, not normal kinda thing. You know where the gauge hangs out. So if you see it spike 50 degrees, it is indicating something changed.


FWIW.. having been around the block a few times... this is a Dakota digital gauge with the sender placed squarely under #3 spark plug.

J
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

I guess you could try a new gauge or thermocouple. Maybe hit the area with a laser thermometer (I know most are not great themselves) just to try to get a second reading.

I dont have a CHT gauge, or even oil pressure. I can't worry about what I can't see Laughing

I wouldn't mind having one of the CHT gauges out of an airplane though. I think the old ones just look cool.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Are you running a thermostat and flaps? Without them you could very well be running too cold especially this time of year.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

There can be more than one answer. But if you really ended up retarding the cam to close the intake @ 50 degrees you litterally took all the grunt out of the engine, so it canīt make power, hence the low head temps. That timing is close to Miller cycle.
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jberger
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
There can be more than one answer. But if you really ended up retarding the cam to close the intake @ 50 degrees you litterally took all the grunt out of the engine, so it canīt make power, hence the low head temps. That timing is close to Miller cycle.


Not sure I follow. I have this same cam in a wbx.. degree’d the same as this one, at the valve @ .050”. Both engines are very snappy. Standard bolt on gear, not adjusted. I’ll play around with the temp sender, I’m just used to FI type IV’s which do run hot.

J
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Single Port 1600 just for fun Reply with quote

OK. Then you didīnt retard the cam. Good.
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