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amazinglarry104
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2009
Posts: 79
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 Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:42 pm Post subject: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice on getting my engine running smoothly.
I had a 1641 DP built up a couple years ago with Solex H30/31PICT and a hot spark distributer. The engine didn't really run too well (stalling while idling and small interrupted "burps" coming from the exhaust), and I never got it to run well. I checked the timing but that's about it, and I have a feeling the guy who built my engine didn't take the time to set it up well.
Anyway, I drove it for a couple months and then moved out of the country for 2 years. During that time, I had a family member start the car on a regular basis, and it always started but didn't run well like always. I'm now back home, and I want to get the engine running right. The engine runs, but you have to keep your foot on the gas slightly or it stalls. I'm planning to do routine maintenance since it's been sitting for a while, but I want to make sure everything is good with my carb and distributer.
So essentially I'm wondering if I should clean/rebuild the 30/31 or get a new carb. I did some research, but I'm not sure what the "best" carb would be for my engine. I just know some people have trouble with the 30/31. Either way I know I will need to go through the process of adjusting and setting up the carb.
The second thing is my distributer. I'm not really sure what I have besides the hot spark name. Is it worth keeping this, or am I better off going with something else? From what I know, this will depend on what carb I end up going with.
Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated!
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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6598
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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34 PICT 3 would be best for your engine. Of course you can pair it with a H30/31.
Once you pick your carburetor then you can decide on a distributor. They should match each other as well as possible.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51131
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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I'd avoid anything "new", professionally rebuilt German parts don't cost that much more, and you can get the carb and distributor that exactly match each other and work best with your model/year car. What you may save by buying Chinese trash now will cost you much more in frustration and regret in the long run.
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db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| Depends . You can probably get it running with what you have or you can spend some $$ and put it back in its original configuration and it will run better/longer. If you want to get it running I would start by checking/setting valve lash, rebuild carb and find out what timing that distributor should be set at I cant help you there never used one of those. Since its been sitting a while I would drain fuel and check condition of tank if its rusty it will continue to clog jets filters etc until fixed/replaced. Check fuel pressure/pump, compression. Checks are free parts can cost A lot. If throttle shaft doesn’t have play in it on carb it will most likely be a simple clean/rebuild about $25 vs new/rebuilt carb $200+++ depending on what you want then you have to pair it with the correct distributor another $250-350 it adds up fast. Find the issue fix it save money for hand sanitizer and tp. Good luck. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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OK: for the record, I have a 1600cc DP engine in my 1970 that I rebuilt 4 years ago, with a 30/31 carb that I rebuilt myself then (on an adapter on a dual port manifold), and a vintage German 009 distributor (points), and it runs well.
What's with that copper tube coming out of the adapter????
And some of your vacuum caps have definitely seen better days.
That carb can work well.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| Cusser wrote: |
OK: for the record, I have a 1600cc DP engine in my 1970 that I rebuilt 4 years ago, with a 30/31 carb that I rebuilt myself then (on an adapter on a dual port manifold), and a vintage German 009 distributor (points), and it runs well.
What's with that copper tube coming out of the adapter????
And some of your vacuum caps have definitely seen better days.
That carb can work well. |
What he said^^ |
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amazinglarry104
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2009
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| heimlich wrote: |
34 PICT 3 would be best for your engine. Of course you can pair it with a H30/31.
Once you pick your carburetor then you can decide on a distributor. They should match each other as well as possible. |
Sweet, good to know.
| busdaddy wrote: |
| I'd avoid anything "new", professionally rebuilt German parts don't cost that much more, and you can get the carb and distributor that exactly match each other and work best with your model/year car. What you may save by buying Chinese trash now will cost you much more in frustration and regret in the long run. |
Yeah, I've heard seen many people say the same thing haha. I will definitely avoid the Chinese carbs and either rebuild or buy a professionally rebuilt German carb.
| db69 wrote: |
| Depends . You can probably get it running with what you have or you can spend some $$ and put it back in its original configuration and it will run better/longer. If you want to get it running I would start by checking/setting valve lash, rebuild carb and find out what timing that distributor should be set at I cant help you there never used one of those. Since its been sitting a while I would drain fuel and check condition of tank if its rusty it will continue to clog jets filters etc until fixed/replaced. Check fuel pressure/pump, compression. Checks are free parts can cost A lot. If throttle shaft doesn’t have play in it on carb it will most likely be a simple clean/rebuild about $25 vs new/rebuilt carb $200+++ depending on what you want then you have to pair it with the correct distributor another $250-350 it adds up fast. Find the issue fix it save money for hand sanitizer and tp. Good luck. |
Thanks, I'll definitely check everything like you mentioned. I'm gonna check the throttle shaft and if it's good I will do a rebuild.
| Cusser wrote: |
OK: for the record, I have a 1600cc DP engine in my 1970 that I rebuilt 4 years ago, with a 30/31 carb that I rebuilt myself then (on an adapter on a dual port manifold), and a vintage German 009 distributor (points), and it runs well.
What's with that copper tube coming out of the adapter????
And some of your vacuum caps have definitely seen better days.
That carb can work well. |
Nice, I think I will do a rebuild and possibly get a new distributer. Is the 009 typically what's used with the 30/31?
The copper tube is for an Ampco Lubricator. You can see it in the first picture. |
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frenchroast
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2019
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| amazinglarry104 wrote: |
| Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice on getting my engine running smoothly. |
Good pictures and a nice clean engine compartment. Here is what I would do to start.
The H30/31 is a good carburetor but it is not a match for that distributor. I'd get a rebuilt 34pict3 and you will also be able to get rid of all the adaptor pieces and that moonshine copper tube still thing installed to the manifold flange.
There is another thread where some people tried the angled port near the flange with the H30/31 but I tested the movement of SVDA and the vacuum on that port and they didn't match. My notebook is in the garage but I recall it would be fully advanced at 1200 rpm on my stock 69.
Try to get an original oil bath cleaner (Samba classifieds). It has a velocity stack built into it and it makes a difference. (You've also got some missing cooling tin pieces, BTW). With the original style air cleaner, you can run the vacuum hose through one of the clips so it sits higher than the vacuum port (prevents gas from going down into the vacuum canister).
Do the usual maintenance things like oil, adjust valves, make sure you have the right plugs, check resistance on the plug wires and coil, set the timing to spec when warm, etc.
Once you get it running check to see if the manifold just below the carburetor gets a coating of frost or condensation on it. If it does, the manifold riser tube is clogged and it needs to be cleaned out (lots of threads on that). Mine does this and I plan to clean it out this winter when I drop the motor for a rebuild. |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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joemama
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1636
Location: La Crescenta, California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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Your complains are that it tends to stall at an idle, and that it periodically "burps" while idling. This could be as simple as the idle mixture been too lean.
I would start by going thru the idle setting procedure. This says 34 pict 3, but is the same for your H30/31
http://www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.html |
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amazinglarry104
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2009
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| frenchroast wrote: |
| amazinglarry104 wrote: |
| Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice on getting my engine running smoothly. |
Good pictures and a nice clean engine compartment. Here is what I would do to start.
The H30/31 is a good carburetor but it is not a match for that distributor. I'd get a rebuilt 34pict3 and you will also be able to get rid of all the adaptor pieces and that moonshine copper tube still thing installed to the manifold flange.
There is another thread where some people tried the angled port near the flange with the H30/31 but I tested the movement of SVDA and the vacuum on that port and they didn't match. My notebook is in the garage but I recall it would be fully advanced at 1200 rpm on my stock 69.
Try to get an original oil bath cleaner (Samba classifieds). It has a velocity stack built into it and it makes a difference. (You've also got some missing cooling tin pieces, BTW). With the original style air cleaner, you can run the vacuum hose through one of the clips so it sits higher than the vacuum port (prevents gas from going down into the vacuum canister).
Do the usual maintenance things like oil, adjust valves, make sure you have the right plugs, check resistance on the plug wires and coil, set the timing to spec when warm, etc.
Once you get it running check to see if the manifold just below the carburetor gets a coating of frost or condensation on it. If it does, the manifold riser tube is clogged and it needs to be cleaned out (lots of threads on that). Mine does this and I plan to clean it out this winter when I drop the motor for a rebuild. |
Awesome, thanks for the help.
If I end up getting a 34pict3, what would a good distributor be to pair with it?
Also, what pieces of tin are missing? I was supposed to get all of them when I bought the engine. |
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frenchroast
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2019
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| amazinglarry104 wrote: |
If I end up getting a 34pict3, what would a good distributor be to pair with it?
Also, what pieces of tin are missing? I was supposed to get all of them when I bought the engine. |
The clone distributor you have might work fine with the 34pict. I get my rebuild parts from Marcel at vwnos.com and he can probably set you up with the correct distributor if you find you’re not happy with the one on there.
Theres a tin piece that connects to the cylinder tin and covers the front of the manifold heat riser (Front as in facing the front of the car. search the gallery for pictures and you’ll see it). Also on a closer look, someone cut out the heat riser cover on the rear engine tin; there’s a square cut out of it. The heat riser flange should be completely covered. Again, a picture is worth a thousand words if I’m not making sense. |
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db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
Read this recent post the h30/31 is a very simple/versatile carb. I have used on single port engines with 009 distributors with excellent results according to the link above it can be used with your distributor. You have lots of “non stock” parts on your engine that does not mean they wont work. When you start changing carbs, distributors etc it is a snowball effect example: you buy 34pict carb now you need correct distributor (yours would probably work but play along for a sec) ok now you need oil bath filter now you need to change your fan shroud and exhaust to use heater boxes and rear tin to use the preheat hose (maybe wrong name) to the oil bath filter that will get you started the list goes on from there. Your engine configuration WILL work if all parts are in working order. My suggestion is sort out what you have get it running and change only what is broken. If you want to go full oe stock pull the engine start over and do it but dont put the “correct” carb or “correct” distributor on and expect unicorns to fly out of the tail pipes. This part changing mentality will bring you lots of frustration. My experience my 2 cents. |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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Agreed, what he have can and should work well. The biggest thing is to hook up everything correctly after going through it all to ensure it is all clean and correct. Go through initial adjustment and go from there. Only worry about replacing parts that are actually bad or unusable. This will go a long way to figuring out and understanding how everything is supposed to function anyways.
My first recommendations would be to pull the carb, teardown and clean it, put it back, and connect the vacuum hose from the distributor to the angled port facing the rear of the car near the flange- it has a yellowed/brown vacuum cap on it currently in the pics. This should behave closer to what the distributor will expect to see.
With a clean, properly adjusted carb, and properly adjusted timing the car should run well if everything is in good shape then start sourcing the right engine tin pieces that are missing.
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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I’m assuming that your distributor is some kind of 034 SVDA Knock-off. I’d pair it with a 34 PICT 3. Specifically, I’d pair it with a restored German Solex 34 pict 3 from Tim at Volkzbitz.
Send him your H30/31 as a core. Also, you need a shepherd’s crook to replace that black vacuum hose which connects from your distributor vacuum can to the carburetor.
Tim
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amazinglarry104
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2009
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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[/quote]
The clone distributor you have might work fine with the 34pict. I get my rebuild parts from Marcel at vwnos.com and he can probably set you up with the correct distributor if you find you’re not happy with the one on there.
Theres a tin piece that connects to the cylinder tin and covers the front of the manifold heat riser (Front as in facing the front of the car. search the gallery for pictures and you’ll see it). Also on a closer look, someone cut out the heat riser cover on the rear engine tin; there’s a square cut out of it. The heat riser flange should be completely covered. Again, a picture is worth a thousand words if I’m not making sense.[/quote]
| db69 wrote: |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
Read this recent post the h30/31 is a very simple/versatile carb. I have used on single port engines with 009 distributors with excellent results according to the link above it can be used with your distributor. You have lots of “non stock” parts on your engine that does not mean they wont work. When you start changing carbs, distributors etc it is a snowball effect example: you buy 34pict carb now you need correct distributor (yours would probably work but play along for a sec) ok now you need oil bath filter now you need to change your fan shroud and exhaust to use heater boxes and rear tin to use the preheat hose (maybe wrong name) to the oil bath filter that will get you started the list goes on from there. Your engine configuration WILL work if all parts are in working order. My suggestion is sort out what you have get it running and change only what is broken. If you want to go full oe stock pull the engine start over and do it but dont put the “correct” carb or “correct” distributor on and expect unicorns to fly out of the tail pipes. This part changing mentality will bring you lots of frustration. My experience my 2 cents. |
| Lingwendil wrote: |
Agreed, what he have can and should work well. The biggest thing is to hook up everything correctly after going through it all to ensure it is all clean and correct. Go through initial adjustment and go from there. Only worry about replacing parts that are actually bad or unusable. This will go a long way to figuring out and understanding how everything is supposed to function anyways.
My first recommendations would be to pull the carb, teardown and clean it, put it back, and connect the vacuum hose from the distributor to the angled port facing the rear of the car near the flange- it has a yellowed/brown vacuum cap on it currently in the pics. This should behave closer to what the distributor will expect to see.
With a clean, properly adjusted carb, and properly adjusted timing the car should run well if everything is in good shape then start sourcing the right engine tin pieces that are missing. |
Awesome guys, thanks so much for the help!
I decided to stay with what I have and get it set up properly. I want to build a bigger engine at some point, so this should be fine for now.
I ordered a rebuild kit for the carb, and this is what I plan to do to get the engine going:
- Rebuild 30/31 (there is no play in the throttle shaft)
- Keep SVDA Hot Spark Distributer
- Adjust valves
- Check plugs
- Change oil
- Replace fuel
- Check fuel pump
- Check compression
- Add shepherd's hook
- Adjust timing
- Adjust/tune carb
Am I missing anything? |
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db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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Thats a great start check your gas tank for rust too This simple step will save untold hours of cursing and install new fuel filters (not in engine compartment).
Take your time follow procedures for each step you will be happy with the results. |
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frenchroast
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2019
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| amazinglarry104 wrote: |
| Am I missing anything? |
Move the vacuum hose to the angled port near the manifold flange and see how well it works for you. |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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| Cusser wrote: |
OK: for the record, I have a 1600cc DP engine in my 1970 that I rebuilt 4 years ago, with a 30/31 carb that I rebuilt myself then (on an adapter on a dual port manifold), and a vintage German 009 distributor (points), and it runs well.
What's with that copper tube coming out of the adapter????
And some of your vacuum caps have definitely seen better days.
That carb can work well. |
Very much agree. The H30/31 always run good for me. 34-3’s on the other hand......
To the original poster.....first, adjust your valves per the Muir book, then just pull your idle jet, volume screws etc and spray everything in and out with Berryman Chem Tool. Check the idle cutoff valve. Don’t use weaker generic carb cleaners. Thread everything back in and adjust per the instructions you can find with a quick google search ie how to adjust an h30/31.
If that doesn’t help, use the rest of the chemtool to hunt for vacuum leaks.
Looks like you have electronic ignition, so no points to have to mess with. |
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amazinglarry104
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2009
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Carb Problems - Rebuild or Buy New? |
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Hey guys, just an update.
I rebuilt my 30/31 and put it back on today. Engine runs great now, better than it did 2 years ago before I left it sitting when I was out of the country. Thanks for all the advice!
I still need to double check the timing and then make sure the idle is set correctly.
The other strange thing I noticed is with my alternator belt. It's a 7355 Gates XL and all of the shims are outside the alternator pulley and the belt is still too loose. When I turn the alternator pulley it turns the crank pulley partially and then slips a bit.
Is there any reason why the belt would be too loose like this? Should I just get a shorter belt? |
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